I'm considering a Zastava M88, which are available for less than $300 new. This all steel model seems to require break-in. Does anyone know how reliable it is after a few hundred rounds? Anyone ever had one? I'd like to avoid the issues I had with my 1911, which I never would have bought if I had known what I know now.
Stay safe.
-czfellow
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=434350&highlight=express
Especially "Notes to Myself" in last post.
Do NOT use the cheap steel-base shells now sold by the caseful at WalMart and the like.
Last edited by mehavey; Today at 02:22 PM.Some years back, I got real scientific and measured the hardness of cast bullets of various alloys at one week intervals to see how much they hardened and how long it took.I found they did age harden, some only took 2 weeks to max out, others 3 weeks and one took 4 weeks, depending on the alloy. After that some alloys lost a little from their new hardness, but some did not and were very stable. The really big thing I learned is they didn't hardened enough to make any difference in my loading. A Bhn point or two one way or another is irrelevant for practical shooting. Like some other things that folks get fixated on, this is a non-issue.
I cast and put them away and size as needed. Hardness has nothing to do with this. It is just easier and who knows what size I will want them when the time comes to load. So, just do whatever you want to do, it will make no difference in anything other than irrelevant theory.
As was already said, they chose hydrocarbon polymers as the basis for their frame which is cheap to manipulate as well as giving an end product that fares far better against the elements than many all-steel guns.
The other aspect for me would be the use, or rather lack of use, of an external safety, yet still having a gun that is safe to handle, chambered, provided you observe "the rules". I've not heard it said that another gun featured this before the Glock, but I may be wrong.
When people say "if it isn't broken, then why fix it?", I'm inclined to agree. They haven't tried to with 1911s, much, the CZ 75 is still being sold and hasn't been superceded. If someone walked out Gen 1 Glock 17, are they suddenly going to be inadequately armed? No. Now if gun technology moved on to such a degree that the Glock performed to antiquated standards, or they themselves had an idea that would revolutionise the gun market, then fine they'd need to change, but if they did so now, just for the sake of it, then they'd risk loosing their customer-base who like their guns precisely for what they are now: remember the Coca Cola recipe change debacle?
As for the aesthetics: I don't mind saying that I like them, personally. I find beauty in function, and as I've owned my G19 and I've grown as a shooter with it, I find it kinder on the eyes back when I bought it simply as a good gun that turned up at a great price. All the same, the lines are simple yet distinctive: they've made a gun all of whose variations are instantly recognisable: it is part of the brand image, a bit like Converse All-Stars or H.D...
I certainly can't see why people get irritated by either their slogan or marketing success: after all what part of modern life, particuarly in the USA, is not built on marketing? Everyone does it... why single out Glocks?...\ABS\Auto Blog Samurai\data\Casting Boolits\thefiringline\confused.gif "Confused")
I've seen bits and pieces on weather to derim before or after annealing 22lr cases. Has anyone come up with any pros or cons on this. I bought a Lee Magnum lead melter to anneal with and from what I gather from previous posted, it works very well. I'm thinking the softer brass would straighten out easier but then too, is the punch going to push through because its to soft? I'd like to hear what you guys have found with this.
Try it both ways.
For myself, I've found for myself that annealing before derimming works the best.
Others may disagree, but like I said, try it both ways.
I am a sovereign individual, accountable
only to God and my own conscience.?You cannot spend your way to prosperity,
just like you cannot fornicate your way to virginity.?
Boolit Mold Join DateDec 2012Posts2I agree with Hickory that whatever works best -- works best. But I would ask the die manufacture what they recommend. I have noticed that dies with tight tolerances do not work very well with annealed brass because of the problem you mentioned-- they pop the tops. I have had looser dies that are easier to work with annealed brass and work well with the exception that some of the brass has a line on it where the rim used to be. I perfer tight die/punch which completely removed the rim.Anyone else notice this?
Boolit Master Join DateNov 2009LocationWashingtonPosts174I derrim first then anneal. Brass has some springback which allows it to come off the punch easier when tolerances are tight. I have tried it with annealed brass and it stuck on my punches.
Bret
de-rim then anneal also.
sometimes I only anneal the front half of the case for point forming.
it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.the more i find out about shootin boolits, the more it contradicts everything i ever learned about shooting jaxketed.
Boolit Master Join DateMar 2011LocationWoods Cross UTPosts712de rim then anneal as well. YOu have to do both of the processes and I have never seen a reason to anneal first. Do what works best for you.
Boolit Master Join DateDec 2008LocationMichiganPosts804I anneal after for the same reasons already mentioned.
Derimming then annealing works best for me as well. Annealing first lead to pop offs. Not cool.
"The right of the people to keep and bear...arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country..." (James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434 [June 8, 1789]) Once the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.
Benjamin Franklin
Boolit Buddy Join DateOct 2009Posts73Sounds like a broken record but like the rest I derim first then anneal. Tried it the other way and pop the top on quite a few.
Boolit Mold Join DateDec 2011Posts7I'm sure this question has been answered elsewhere...but how do you know when you haven't anneal enough? The reason why I ask is because I stuck some cases on a cookie sheet in the oven on broil for about 30 minutes...pulled them out...and ran them through my dies and didn't see any problems. I guess if they weren't annealed enough they would have cracked or something??
Thx,
D
Improperly annealed brass is harder to work with. If your doing 22LR brass you will get wrinkled when you point form in the nose. If you can take a 22LR case in between your two gingers and pinch it closed, your good on annealing.I'm going to say you probly didn't anneal your brass enough in your oven. Not hot enough. Maybe on a gas oven in the self cleaning mode.
"The right of the people to keep and bear...arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country..." (James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434 [June 8, 1789]) Once the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.
Benjamin Franklin
Boolit Master Join DateDec 2008LocationMichiganPosts804I do my 22lr cases in an electric oven on self clean for a bout 30 min. It gets upto about 900 F according to the manufacturer. They can be pinched together with your fingers. Broil however may not get hot enough, not sure.
Boolit Master Join DateMar 2011LocationWoods Cross UTPosts712I'm sure this question has been answered elsewhere...but how do you know when you haven't anneal enough? The reason why I ask is because I stuck some cases on a cookie sheet in the oven on broil for about 30 minutes...pulled them out...and ran them through my dies and didn't see any problems. I guess if they weren't annealed enough they would have cracked or something??
Thx,
DI do believe the magic # is 700 degrees.
Boolit Buddy Join DateOct 2009Posts73I have used my oven to anneal many times. I usually get 95% of them done but it do 30 minutes and stir them and then another 30 minutes.
I do believe the magic # is 700 degrees.I agree. Though other members don't think even 800F is enough. I like keeping my brass in the shape I put it in my oven. Too hot and the brass becomes soup.
"The right of the people to keep and bear...arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country..." (James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434 [June 8, 1789]) Once the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.You may not post new threadsYou may not post repliesYou may not post attachmentsYou may not edit your postsForum Rules
Benjamin Franklin
Abbreviations used in Reloading
Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt"
Boolit Mold Join DateMar 2013Posts13
Traduzione
hello to everyone! I have only just begun to melt the balls. lube if you use a pan, I must first drawing and then put the gas chek and then put the bullets in the pan lube?Ciao a tutti . Ho cominciato da poco a fondere i proiettili . Devo prima trafilere , poi mettere il gas check , poi alla fine metto i proiettili nel pan lube ?
Boolit Mold Join DateMar 2013Posts13but to put the gas check I have to pass them in the lube Die , and to do this I must first GREASE, because without fat stick to die
Boolit Mold Join DateMar 2013Posts13Traduzione
what I mean is: when I put the GC at the end of the bullets are already greased, why should I even pass them in the pan lube? sorry if my questions are stupid, I'm a newbie
Traduzione dall'inglese con babelNon si far? male le pallottole per lubrificare il proiettile prima con il grasso e correre attraverso il dado dimensioni per installare il controllo del gas. ? possibile utilizzare ragia minerale per pulire il proiettile dopo aver installato il controllo del gas. Quindi, ? possibile utilizzare il pan di lubrificazione per lube i proiettili come ti piace.
It will not hurt the bullets to lubricate the bullet before grease and run it through the die size to install the gas check. You can use mineral spirits to clean the bullet after installing the gas check. You can then use the pan to lube the bullets as you like.
Stai usando grasso per lubrificare i proiettili, o stai usando un lubrificante della pallottola, come chiamati?
Are you using grease to lubricate the bullets, or are you using a bullet lubricant, such as alox?
I will fear no evil, for thou art with me.
I assume your talking about sizing with the Lee push through sizer to size then you pan lube & you don't want to stick a bullet in the Lee sizer.Put your cast bullets in a container. I use a gallon ziploc bag. Spray about 2-3 pumps of Case Lube over the bullets. Shake to get an even coating. This will prevent sticking a bullet in the Lee sizer die when you size & install the GC. Pan lube as you like.
Hope this helps.
Boolit Master Join DateFeb 2007LocationmissouriPosts428I've never has any problem pushing them thru a lee sizer without lube, unless they are linotype and way over sized.
I always install it before. That way I get a tight fit to the boolit lead before any lube can get underneath. I have this impression that lube under the gas check is what causes some of the gas checks to come off .... I can't prove that though ....
Ohio Rusty ><>
"This is America !!, where many have fought and died for our right
to celebrate our views with inflatable creatures in our yards ......."
If you ever decide to buy a Lyman or RCBS sizer/luber they sell a tool that sets on the stem that allows the bullet to have a GC installed but not lubed.
The best way if pan lubing is to spray the bullets with a sizing lube and apply the GC by running through a sizing die. The GC is a crimp on fit and not just a push on and load item. If not crimped by a die it will come off the bullet in firing and be useless.
The GC is always first. If using a Star sizer then you place a GC on the bullet and lube it all in one step. Very fast David
Shooter of the "HOLY BLACK" SASS 81802 AKA FAIRSHAKE; NRA ; BOLD; WARTHOG;Deadwood Marshal;Bayou Bounty Hunter; So That his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeatYou may not post new threadsYou may not post repliesYou may not post attachmentsYou may not edit your postsForum Rules
Abbreviations used in Reloading
Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt"
what is the best tumbling method?There isn't one. Rather, it comes down to one's preference.
Well said 462 , I personally tumble with primers out. Lizard litter and NU-FINISH car polish. Works for me
Boolit Bub Join DateFeb 2013Posts23I deprime first. So the first time I got media stuck in the flash hole with a primer inserted before I noticed the block, I decided to experiment and fill with powder anyway. Well primer popped out the media and ignited the powder just fine.
Boolit Mold Join DateApr 2013Posts17For pistol brass, I normally tumble with the primer in the case since these can be loaded without using case lube.For rifle brass, I normally tumble with the primer in, them resize and deprime. I tumble aain to remove the case lube so the primer pockets get cleaned a little, but not much. After the second tumbling, the brass gets trimmed also.
If you are using stainless pins and water, you will want to deprime first or you will trap waer in the primer pocket. The pins do clean the primer pocket pretty well.
We do it differently, Pistol is easy.. but rifle you can deprime, tumble (for me in SS media) and then I come back and size after I uniform the flash hole and primer pocket (but I shoot LONG distances). Once sized, I'll toss it back into the tumbler and tumble for about 30 minutes to cut the lube. One caveat, with uniformed primer pocket (large pistol and rifle), you need to watch for pellets in the flash hole. It does happen from time to time with properly uniformed flash holes.
Boolit Mold Join DateApr 2013Posts17I deprime first. So the first time I got media stuck in the flash hole with a primer inserted before I noticed the block, I decided to experiment and fill with powder anyway. Well primer popped out the media and ignited the powder just fine.Regardless of the fact it worked for you, it's a dangerous practice to fire ammo with the flash hole blocked by media.You may not post new threadsYou may not post repliesYou may not post attachmentsYou may not edit your postsForum Rules
Abbreviations used in Reloading
Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt"
Mike:Did you put a nitro card wad under the ball? If not that is the likely answer. A nitro card wad or two and a scoop of COW under the ball makes a world of difference.
When I first loaded round balls, all I had was 0.690" which was too big for any shotcups I could find so I cut petals off to just under the equator of the ball then shot. Accuracy was not good and recovered wads were all distorted. Without support under the ball, they were wrapping around the curved surface and the gas seal was blowing.
By adding nitro card wads that supported the bottom of the shotcup and stopped wad destruction. I never did get accuracy with the 0.690" balls though but that is another story.
I also found that with some loads, gas seals blew at the edge and in some cases wads really suffered from what I think was high pressure. Even with no sticky extraction (which is an over pressure sign to be aware of) I think the faster powders may be too hard on some wads. I use mostly Blue Dot and IMR4756 which are both pretty slow powders.
Unique should be a better choice than Red Dot but as long as pressure with Red Dot is okay then wads shouldn't self destruct. You might try a lighter charge too.
Did you get sticky extraction? Did the metal head swage into the extractor groove? Take a look here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ltraSLug/page4
Post $65 ~ If the head of the hull looks like that you have too much pressure.
Give that a try and see what happens.
Longbow
