311467 30-06 1917 Blues

Boolit Mold Join DateMar 2013Posts19

Hi people I could use a little help here.

Been tough going it alone.

Before I sart I would like you to know that I have been surfing the site gleanig what I could,
thanks for all that great information.

Here's the skinny, I recently acquired a decent 1917 Eddystone, bore slugs .309 plus a tad,
excellent lands ( deep engraving)

So far the best grouping I've managed to get was by using 311466 w/ 16.5 grs Universal (not Universal Clays),
2 1/2" @ 100 yds with Battle sights.

However my goal is to use the 311467 , cast from an old Lyman Ideal mould.

The top two bands measure .302 on average, the base .314, Lyman #2 alloy .

I full lenght resize, use a lyman M die w/ a .312 expander, necks flaired .

Cases are Match and LC 42

Bullet sized 310 seated to lands

I do not have nor can get 4895 or 2400.

I have 748,H335, Blue Dot, 3031 , 4198, Universal, 2520,Tailk Boss,231,296, 4759

Using about 14 grs of Universal and Remington primers I have managed to get three shots just about touching
w / a 2" flier left and a 2" flier right obviously blowing the group, again @ 100 yds.

A quick note here I was experincing vertical stringing until I raised the muzzle, thanks for that reminder.

Any help would be apreciated ( I know its an old subject) .

Thanks Dan

Last edited by guicksylver; Yesterday at 10:59 AM. Reason: Spelling

Dan,

Here are my thoughts, someone else may see your situation differently ?

I'd go to SR 4759 and start with 16.5 grs. and stop at 18.5 grs. Load 5 rounds with 16.5, 5 rounds with 17.0 grs. , load 5 rounds with 17.5grs. , etc, etc., until you hit 18.5 grs.

You should get some favorable results in there somewhere.

I would also strongly consider a .311 sizing die.
If your bore is .309 and you're sizing .310 that might just be part of your problem. If your bore is .309 " + and you are sizing .310 you might not be filling the throat of your barrel ?

Using a .312 " expander and sizing your cast bullets to .310 with a .309 + bore sounds like a poor combination of " numbers " that combined may be a detriment to accuracy ? That doesn't sound like it is going to provide you with adequate neck tension on your cast bullet. I'd think that a .309" expander with a .311" cast bullet might work out much better for you.

A lot of military rifles won't break the 2" group mark at 100 yards however. An AWFUL LOT of shooters can't take open metallic sights on an accurate military rifle and break 2 " with a 5 shot group at 100 yds.

You don't mention a lot of other variables, the cast bullet lube you're using, , whether or not you removed all traces of copper fouling from your barrel before you started shooting cast bullets, the specific alloy you are casting with, etc., etc.

Do you seat your cast bullets " out " so that when you chamber a round that you see engraving marks ( made by your rifling ) on the cast bullet ?

There are an awful lot of variables to be considered here in your quest for accuracy.

Ben

Last edited by Ben; Yesterday at 11:32 AM.

Boolit Mold Join DateMar 2013Posts19

Ben Thanks for the reply.

Excellent questions.
Hope my answers are as good.

The lube is Lyman Alox ( love the smell)

I do engrave the bullets ( I'm in the office so I can't give you the AOL)
but they are out there so the bolt closes with resistance.

I do have a 311 die and am going to try that this weekend.

The first thing I did was give it a good scrub to make sure all copper was out.

The alloy is Moussouri Bullet alloy #2

All bullits are checked at casting, sizing and when I segregate to .1 grains no + or -, and at seating

Your comment about the neck sizing die is intersesting.

Because the Mil brass is so thick I used the 312 and I thought the neck would "resize" the bullet when seating.

I aonly crimp enough to take out the neck flair

Here's a story for you, when I was developing loads for my 1917 Win 94 30-30 w/ 26" barrel I stumbled across a load that would give me .75 -1.25" groups @ 100.
unsized cases 20 grs RX7, 311 407 sized 309, seated on the third ring, just enough crimp to keep the bullet from falling out or getting pushed in.

As for your suggested loads, thank you for confirming what I was going to load tonite.

I will go back to basic, sans my ideas, use yours and let you know what happens. Thanks again.

just wondering, does an unsized boolit fit into a fired case with little resistance?

I think Ben is steering you right.

how hard is Moussouri #2?

I am ONLY responsible for what I Say!
I am NOT responsible for what You THINK I Said!
====
If numbers killed I'd hunt with a Calculator!

Boolit Mold Join DateMar 2013Posts19

Nanuk

Moussouri Alloy is what they call Modern Lyman #2, same as the old Lyman # 2

I'm not sure whether you are refering to the 30-30 or 30-06.

But I can tell you that the 30-30 fits with little to no resistance.

I'll check on the 30-06.

the efect I image is the equalivent of what SS shooters do laod bullet then case.

I personally " aim for " ( excuse the pun ), moderate neck tension.

I don't want to pull a cast bullet and find that the neck tension further sized the bullet during the seating process. If that is happening, I've got way too much neck tension.

At the same time, I'm not a fan of cast bullets that can be " thumb seated " into a case neck. It is my opinion that more neck tension is needed than that. Correct neck tension contributes to consistent ignition of powders.

As to using my ideas.....UUmmmm ? That may get you closer to some good groups and could just as easy take you in the other direction.

Some of this is chemistry, some is physics, some alchemy, some VooDoo, some is just plain old poker luck..........

A patient & persistent man definitely has the edge in this " game ".

Ben

Last edited by Ben; Yesterday at 01:29 PM.

Boolit Mold Join DateMar 2013Posts19

Ben you are so right.

The 2 1/2" group I got with the 31466 was "just" some I loaded up.

Wish they could ll start off that way.

No where on the threads did I see anyone mention an expanding die size.

So I'm assuming they are using .309

I'll be carefull to load some with "one" change only.

I would go to the larger size first and see how things change then swap the powder.
h-335 is just a tick slower than 4895 you can use it also and treat it the same.
use the same data and such.
a Dacron filler would be a good idea.

the shots off to the side and you having to lift the muzzle to fix it are symptoms of ignition inconsistency with the load you are using now.

it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

the more i find out about shootin boolits, the more it contradicts everything i ever learned about shooting jaxketed.

Here's my thoughts;

Alloy is good

Lube is good

I would use NS fire formed cases. If you don't have a NS die then consider a bushing die or a Lee collet die so necks are sized to give .002 - .003" neck tension.

With 4759 start with 18 gr, use a 3/4 gr dacron filler, work up in 1/2 gr to 23 - 24 gr.

With 3031 start at 26 gr and work up to 30 gr with the same dacron filler.

Size bullet at .311 and make sure GC si seated fully and squarely on shank.

Seat bullet to lands with GC still in case neck.

That bullet should shoot very well as above with either of those powders and the dacron filler.

Larry Gibson

At least you have your gun to shoot. About 8 years ago, I bought a 1917 drill 'rifle. Didn't cost much. No papers. Great deal, right?? no. when I got it home and broke it down, it had a stub barrel, but did have the receiver and trigger group, no bolt. So I put it away with thought that 'one day' i'd run down the parts. Last year I did. Got a complete bolt and short barrel from Numrich. 'So!' , says I, 'I'll just put me a gun together!'. I can't find that blasted thing, any where. And it's not a big house! Hope you find the formula for your 1917. Hope I find mine......

Boolit Mold Join DateMar 2013Posts19

Hey guys thanks for taking the time to respond.

I'm definetly going to try the suggested loads.

I.ve sized a bunch 311 and checked my OAL so it engraves.

Now Mike for you I have a neck sizing die and can't find it, so I guess I'll be ordering a new one.
It should come about the time my powders run out.

My lost gun story, a hundred or so years ago when my nephew was born my sister inlaw said she didn't want my nephew to grow up around guns so I squirled them around to friends houses. My luck held and he became interested anyways. So one day she came over and said you might as well get them back. I thought gee thanks great I'll go get the two or three that I remembered, well once my friends stoped bringing them over and I got a chance to count them, there were 17 .

Project and plans are just things that seem to never happen.

I keep telling myself this is only a hoby, but darn ,things are supposed to go the way I want if it's my hoby, RIGHT!

Boolit Mold Join DateMar 2013Posts19

Larry you are right on, my last Smith Corona 03a3 shot 1 1/4 "@100 on demand with my 311407 sized 309 20/2400 htis 311467 should do the same.

I thought 2520 was the ball powder = of 4895?

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