Mixing Bens Red

Dean...You've got a very good idea with the toaster oven. I think I'm going to go buy one, for the next time I make some up!

kbstenberg...Kevin, Don't go off the proven formula or amounts......this is what has caused a lot of members to post why their attempt at making Bens Red didn't work. The only thing that you want to play with on making Bens Red is the beeswax. If you want it stiffer or more tacky, reduce or add this ingredient only.
On straining thru a shirt, I put a shirt around a bowl with a rubber band, pour a little at a time and use either a whisk or wooden spoon to help it strain thru the tee shirt. It'll still be hot when you get it all strained, which will take a little time to get it all worked thru the shirt, then I put it in a baking pan and put in frrezer or leave to cool on it own.

Never would I change Felix or Ben's red.
The only question is heat and sequence.
41 is helping me, I did get too hot with mine. Who knew the Coleman stove was hot as the sun?Jim, This thread i started didn't have anything to do with your test on making it. I'm honored I can help you out, as you have much knowledge on pistols and have taught me much thru your posts. Kind of a payback!
But this had to do with Runs comments on melting the R&T first. I wanted to experiment!
Plus I was hoping members who wanted to give it a try would read how I mix it up and follow what me or Dean or Ben have posted and get good results the first time. Hello Ben.............Thank you for posting your lube recipe. I had a chance to make some of it today and shoot some also. This was my very first time at making any lube so yes I am a novice at best. I thought I followed the recipe to the letter. I used exactly the ingredients as you laid them out or I think I did. I noticed my lube is not real red like yours is. When looking at the lubed bullets it is more orange. In the pan it looks like a diluted orange. Not that this matters but I am questioning whether I did things right. I noticed when I shot the lubed bullets they smoked a little, but very noticeable. My barrel was shiny clean though. The lube is firm but not hard and seem to have a little drag to it and not real slippery. The bullet seemed to group ok or at least as well as I can see through open sites. Anyone have any idea what I may have done? I followed the recipe below.

24 ozs. = 3 cups - melted beeswax
14 ozs. = 1 3/4 cups - Red N Tacky
4.6 ozs. = 2/3 cup - Johnson's Paste Wax - melted
2.3 ozs. = 1/3 cup - Dexron III ATF
2.3 ozs. = 1/3 cup- STP Oil Treatment
Attachment 70488Attachment 70489Attachment 70490

Ok, Here's my experience....when my pyrex blew up, which is in my first part of the post, I had poured what i had from my Pyrex into an old beer mug. When it cooled it was the same color as yours....only finding I can think of is the beeswax scorched. You had it up way to hot and scorched it.

My camera on my phone is horrible, but the pictures I took of my batches are red in color, even though they don't look like it.

Plus the swirls of Red in it...did you strain thru a tee shirt? They look like chunks in there.
if you try again, read how I've made it, and follow the steps I outlined and yours will come out red like mine did and my batches from a while back have. Good luck on your next try! If you need help pm me and I'll be more than happy to walk you thru it or give advice if you need it.

Last edited by 41 mag fan; 05-14-2013 at 05:29 AM.

The bowl and rubber band will work great when filtering through a tshirt.
It wouldn't hurt to have a hair dryer handy, it'll help keep things from coagulating in the fabric.

2013 Blindfolded/Nude boolit casting tournament champion.

41 sent me some of his lube to test and it looks perfect. It smells more like beeswax while mine smells like old motor oil.

if it smells bad does that mean it got burnt?

if it smells bad does that mean it got burnt?Yeah, I think.

im not allowed to bring it in the house

I added a vial of patchouli oil to mine. Smells like a hippie.
Just be careful what kind f scented oils you use. I tried some once and it foamed up and went everywhere.
The one oil I found that works doesn't change the lube properties one bit but it does make for some very confused people at the gun range. I can empty a magazine of 9mm from my Glock and you can smell it half way up the firing line.

When I'm pan lubing, I come in the house and the wife says "been lubin boolits again huh?" the smell isn't overpowering but it's certainly present.
Lots of fun!

2013 Blindfolded/Nude boolit casting tournament champion.

bees wax will scorch if you take it over about 200-f.
it doesn't completely ruin the lube but it doesn't do it any good either.
[you start breaking the ester compounds down and releasing the alcohols]
melt the grease and other stuff together and hold it at the 350+ for a few minutes.
this takes the solvents off the jpw, and the napthenics out of the atf/stp.

either melt the b-wax separately or break it into chunks.
pull the grease off the heat and add the wax. [turn the heat down at this point]
stir,stir ,stir
you might have to put it back on/off the heat to help the wax if you don't pre-melt it.
once the wax is all melted and blended pour it out to cool.

it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

the more i find out about shootin boolits, the more it contradicts everything i ever learned about shooting jaxketed.

i melted the beewax separate from everything else i must have just but the beewax in the grease while the grease was to hot
i will do better next time im sure, but ill have to use what i made. i may swing by the wally world to see if there is something i can de stink it with.
im pan lubing with it and i really need to be able to bring it in the house without the wife flippin out

it will have an old musty grease smell even if made properly, there is no way around it.
once it's made the smell generally dissipates but some women will smell it no matter what, and don't even think about using alox around them.

one sneaky trick to cover the smell is to burn some popcorn in the microwave, it covers just about everything.

it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

the more i find out about shootin boolits, the more it contradicts everything i ever learned about shooting jaxketed.

one sneaky trick to cover the smell is to burn some popcorn in the microwave, it covers just about everything. You are one devious dude Run!

"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools."
Herbert Spencer (1891)

When melting the Red and Tacky grease does it actually turn to liquid or does it stay paste like? Maybe I am burning the R&T grease and getting it to hot. I does smoke a lot when melting it. I start off on a low heat and work my way up. It never does turn to the consistency of say the bees wax which is very liquid.

you'll see a drop point temperature on the tube, it should be about 350-f.
stuff like wheel bearing grease is over 500-f.
to get Lithium-12 stearate to blend into a pao oil you have to take the heat to over 450-f at a minimum.

when melting the grease take your time and monitor your temperatures.
your lead thermometer is useful but is not really gonna give you a correct temperature.
it will give you an indication of what is happening though.
the grease will go mostly liquid but it will go to a jelly like state as it cools down.
the slow heating also gives the jpw time to steam off and cook down.

once you do this a time or two you don't need to measure the temp and such as you will visually que in on what is happening.

hit the grease with the wax and stir,stir,stir.
use the wax to cool down the grease mix and use the stove to keep bumping the temp if you need to get the wax melted a little more.
the grease will cool down fast once you take the pan off the heat.

it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

the more i find out about shootin boolits, the more it contradicts everything i ever learned about shooting jaxketed.

the grease won't really go to a full thin liquid [it has been tied up with a lith stearate] what liquid you do see is the free oils and the wax is what ties those up.

I have tried tying all the free oils up with Li-12 Li stearate, regular Li-lithium stearate, and aluminum stearate, as well as sodium stearate.
you can take all the oils in by adding 5-7% more stearate but you cannot control them in heat or under pressure [they come free again]
you can however lower the wax content of the lube.
you have to get up to the 22% stearate area to totally lock up all the oils.
you end up with a block grease and don't need the wax to make a solid.
[this doesn't really work well for boolit lube]

one of the things that has done pretty good is moving the stearate up to 33+% of the lube and the wax down to the same amount, and using lesser amounts of oil,plus substituting the solid form of the oil for a large portion of the lube.
you can then tie the whole thing into a homogenous solid where the oils become part of the internals instead of the "wet lube" part.

it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

the more i find out about shootin boolits, the more it contradicts everything i ever learned about shooting jaxketed.

ok hopefully ill get out to shoot some boolits wearin bens red (aka, bens reddish-orange and stinky) this weekend. just some thoughts on the stuff so far.
it is very sticky and wants to stay on the bullet
it retracts its size when cooled so if you want to take it out of a pan its pretty easy
melting it again got rid of alot of the smell, still doesnt smell pleasant but you got to put your face right in the stuff to smell it

fiver what would you use block grease for?

I like Dean's suggestion to add a vail of Patchouli . Every time I smell that , it brings back memories of a sweet young thing from the 1960's, she liked to burn patchouli encense while we ....talked in her room. Shooting those boolits would bring back a lot of fond memories.

Thanks DeanWinchester

Gary

I like Dean's suggestion to add a vail of Patchouli . Every time I smell that , it brings back memories of a sweet young thing from the 1960's, she liked to burn patchouli encense while we ....talked in her room. Shooting those boolits would bring back a lot of fond memories.

Thanks DeanWinchester

Gary

What kind of boolits were you shooting when you was "talking" in her room???

block grease is used in high heat/pressure applications.
and it takes extreme pressure to extrude them into place.
you have different 'grades' of grease all the way from #1 through #7
#1 is like a light oil almost.
#1.5 is white lith assembly grease.
#2 is the brown lith grease or like the red and tacky.
you also have a #2.5 grease that is slightly thicker
#3 is wheel bearing grease.
#7 is a solid block of grease that is almost wax like.

I have used solid stick grease in some applications that was a #5 or so it takes @350 psi of pressure to make them flow through their fittings.
a #7 can take about 1,000- 1,500 psi of pressure to make them flow into place.

it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

the more i find out about shootin boolits, the more it contradicts everything i ever learned about shooting jaxketed.

Has anybody accurately converted the liquid measure to weight? Seems to me it would be a lot easier to get to get the portions accurate.

"You are not a hoarder until you have exceeded a lifetime supply"

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Abbreviations used in Reloading
Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt"

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