Need ideas for the ideal hunting trip

Alaska would be fantastic but prepare for a serious price tag. Last I heard, the going rate for a guided moose hunt was north of $12K.

Speaking of moose, supposedly the best place (best chances and price) is Newfoundland. Their moose are smaller and don't have big racks but there are lots of them and hunts are much more affordable.

If you want a "Southern" experience, try one of the south GA quail plantations. They treat you like a king.

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Ideal velocity for the 405 grain cast 45-70 boolit.

Looking for opinions on the ideal velocity range that works good for the 405 grain 45-70 boolit in a 22 inch barrel.

I prefer something in the 1400fps range. Accurate in my marlin cowboy, a bit more authority than bp velocities, yet not abusive.

I prefer something in the 1400fps range. Accurate in my marlin cowboy, a bit more authority than bp velocities, yet not abusive.I am assuming that you still get good knockdown out to 200 yards?

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Ideal hardness formula

Boolit Bub Join DateMar 2013LocationI challenge your middle of nowhere, and raise you 5.Posts46

This was located here: http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/15e296c61415e831fecfe8fddcc1dc92-414.html

Ideal hardness in BHN = Pressure / 1,920
Maximum BHN = Pressure / 1,422

Anyone else use this?

Boolit Bub Join DateMar 2013LocationI challenge your middle of nowhere, and raise you 5.Posts46

No one here is aware of this formula?
I have now read it on a number of sites, but it confuses the daylights out of me.
According to lyman, my 240gr 6.0 Unique loaded cartridge produces 10,300 cpu.
This would give me a BHN of 5.3 or roughly pure lead?

I'm giving myself a headache.

I'm aware of it, but it is really just a theoretical formula and not of much use in the real world. If it were true, my .454 Casull boolits would turn to putty at 55 KPSI.

I seriously doubt that any experienced caster depends on the formula.

You cannot discover new oceans unless you have the courage to lose sight of the shore

This has been around for a long time. I have used it as a guide to match the velocity I want to the BHN of the alloy. If you are shooting higher velocity rifle loads and tried to use 5 BHN you would probably get miserable accuracy and leading. So you use the formula to determine how hard your alloy needs to be so it will give you the performance you are wanting.
Remember the fit is king. You can use a harder alloy than the formula says as long as it fits the gun properly. I only use 2 different hardness of alloy now and it works well. About 14 BHN and 22 BHN.
This formula is also used in the new Lee reloading book.

Ignore any such formulae and your headache will instantly disappear.

Cast and shot lead bullets for mebbe 15 years before I tried "The Formula". Too much trouble for the results I achieved (none?). For me and my guns bullet to gun fit is way more important...

The formula is over simplified.

BHN is only 50% of the "hardness" of a cast bullet. Malleability/elasticity, etc. (whatever you want to call it) is the other half. You can easily have 2 cast bullets of the same BHN but one can be brittle and the other malleable. One can be pushed with higher psi and it isn't the brittle one. A lot depends on the % content of the lead, animony, tin and copper in binary, ternary and 4 component (quadra ?) alloys. Also the formula does not take into account the accelleration rate before the max psi is reached. Slow burning powders accellerate slower for a given psi and most often a higher velocity.

Having pressure tested a lot of cast bullet loads in various cartridges I no longer even bother with calculating that formula as its answer is most often meaningless.

Larry Gibson

Boolit Master Join DateSep 2009LocationArizonaPosts727

Great read Larry, and I only had to read it once.

Heard of it.

Bill

If it was easy, anybody could do it.

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Old Ideal molds

Boolit Mold Join DateMar 2013LocationHouston, TXPosts4

Here is another post showing some Ideal molds. Some of these are marked Middlefield USA and others are marked New Haven CT USA. I really don't know anything about these, especially the codes that are on them. All of these except #7 below are round nose molds - #7 is square. If you all could tell me anything about these I would appreciate it.

They are listed in the order shown below:

1 6
2 7
3 8
4 9
5 10
-- 11

1) 386177 Middlefield
2) 449189 New Haven
3) 429184 256 New Haven
4) 433184 256 New Haven
5) 358159 125 New Haven
6) 454190 Middlefield
7) 42-352 Middlefield
8) 533476 110 Newer blocks Middlefield
9) 454424 387 Newer blocks Middlefield
10) 450225 Middlefield
11) 36072 110 New Haven

some/most all of those are lyman numbers and the cavity's would correspond to the numbers still used today.
buffalo bore has a good lyman chart where you could look at the picture and your mold and see what's what.
at the bottom of this page is an icon marked castpics it airc has a lyman mold chart in it where you will find lots of your molds.

the 454424 is a 45 colt semi-wad cutter mold that pours near .454 diameter and is about 260 grs in weight.
the other three numbers [387] are marker numbers to keep the mold halves together throughout a run.
i could point out many others but they are all on the chart.

it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

the more i find out about shootin boolits, the more it contradicts everything i ever learned about shooting jaxketed.

First three digits are the "nominal" diameter. They normally cast a few thousandths larger
than nominal. The last two (if a five digit) or three (if a six digit - all modern molds are six
digit with a leading zero added to old molds after the third digit) are the design or cherry
number, arbitrary and means nothing except as an ID number.

If you haven't misread them, a number of those are oddball diameters -

386177 is for the .41 Colt. 429 diam is for .44 cal like .44 Mag and Spl. .454 are for .45
Colt, 454190 is a std rn fp and 454424 is Keith's design for this caliber, as SWC. .450 is an
odd one, don't know what that would be for. Same for .533 diam. Very odd collection there.

Bill

Last edited by MtGun44; Yesterday at 08:13 PM.

If it was easy, anybody could do it.

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Ideal 308241

while perusing my plethora of boolit moulds I came across this old Ideal mould. cast a few and here is what I got;

it is a plain base round nose
weighs out at 158 grains (wheel weights)
bottom band .315-.316
two middle bands .313
top band .311
nose .308
3 lube grooves

cannot find it listed in my old lyman cast book. what can I use it for? makes a pretty boolit.

TTC

Try casting it 50% WW and 50% lead, don't push it too hard in any .30 caliber and you can drive nails with it. Maybe Ben can/will weight in on this bullet. He put up some pictures awhile back, 30/06 with a small load of International Clays, most impressive.

I have that same mold only in a 2 cavity marked 311241 by Lyman. Mine cast a bit smaller than the one you have using my WW metal.Mine is .314 on the bottom band and .313 on the other 3 with the nose at .300
It is a good shooting plain base booilt for me. It will out shoot the Lee group buy 311041 plain base boolit any day of the week in my rifles...........Terry

while perusing my plethora of boolit moulds I came across this old Ideal mould. cast a few and here is what I got;

it is a plain base round nose
weighs out at 158 grains (wheel weights)
bottom band .315-.316
two middle bands .313
top band .311
nose .308
3 lube grooves

cannot find it listed in my old lyman cast book. what can I use it for? makes a pretty boolit.

TTC

You have an early version, later ones were 311241. The design changed with each cherry as I have several examples. Usefull in several 30 caliber rifles: 30-30, 308, 30-06 7.62x54R etc. There is a GB going on in the Active GBs section now for it in 0.311" and 0.316" diameters. Good boolit.

45 2.1

Knowledge without understanding is a dangerous thing. For a little knowledge entices us to walk its path, a bit more provides the foundation on which we take our stand, and a sufficient amount can erect a wall of knowledge around us, trapping us in our own ignorance.

Never sleep, never die

Knowledge is easy to get, but worthless if you never use it. However the info is free, so the only person you have to blame is yourself if you chose not to use the information.

Yes it is an early mold and shoot very well in my 30-06 and SKS, have not tried it in a 30-30 yet but expect it to preform well in it also. I'm not done experimenting with this boolit yet but it does show promise. The picture shows what I think is about the top end velocity for this plan base design. Higher velocity starts leading. I will try reducing my charge and velocity to see if I can get tighter groups than this.

Here is my 308241 :
( Sorry, I left out the make of primer in the load data listed in the photo below .....It was Wolf Large rifle )

Here is a useful link that shows many old mold numbers.

http://www.three-peaks.net/bullet_molds.htm

wcp

The picture shows what I think is about the top end velocity for this plan base design. Higher velocity starts leading. I will try reducing my charge and velocity to see if I can get tighter groups than this.If you freechec (a single thickness aluminum gas check) them you can go a lot farther up in velocity. The last ones I did were air cooled ones of 50/50 WW/Pb alloy. I got them to about 1900 fps before it started leading some. Expansion was very good at that velocity.

45 2.1

Knowledge without understanding is a dangerous thing. For a little knowledge entices us to walk its path, a bit more provides the foundation on which we take our stand, and a sufficient amount can erect a wall of knowledge around us, trapping us in our own ignorance.

Never sleep, never die

Knowledge is easy to get, but worthless if you never use it. However the info is free, so the only person you have to blame is yourself if you chose not to use the information.

If you freechec (a single thickness aluminum gas check) them you can go a lot farther up in velocity.How does the PB gas check work, is it as easy to install as standard checks? I have not gotten into check making yet. It would be handy to have a the ability to make your own checks plus the PB check. I have a DC 311041 mold that I enjoy shooting beside this old timer PB mold.

wcp

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What's Ideal Hardness for deer size game?

If the velocity goal is 1800- 2000fps, is there a hardness that allows satisfactory expansion(Gas Checks used)?

More information: Bullet design (molds on order) are flat nose, Lyman 173gr and RCBS 200gr

Application: Marlin lever guns, 30-30 and .35 rem.

Alloy on hand: old clip on WW

Last edited by jsteed; Yesterday at 06:47 AM. Reason: more info

The problem we have in our country today is there are more who vote for a living than work for a living !

I believe it would depend on caliber and boolit profile.

what are you working with?

Ken

Screwbolts Lead, smelted lead from Bullet traps at Gun manufacturers, from jacketed Pistol and rifle bullets. Fluxed three times with bees wax and pine saw dust. 20 pound and 40 pound boxes.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?173-Screwbolts-Lead-Area

???O? ????
All The ?Rat Bastards? In DC Know Obama Is Not Eligible!
I'll cling to my God and my guns, and you can keep the "Change".

Boolit Master Join DateFeb 2008LocationTexasPosts554

With any decent meplat anything from 12 to 15 will give decent expansion. An older article in the Lyman cast bullet book demonstrated the effect of hardness (lyman#2) vs velocity. After about 1800 fps higher impact resulted in progressively less penetration and greater nose shedding in lieu of expansion.
I use large meplat and heat treated bullets at 22-27 bhn. I place my shots carefully and expect no expansion.

Salvaging old Marlins is not a pasttime...it's a passion

Water quenched 50/50 WW/pure (about 15 bhn) does real well at 1800 fps. Will expand nicely and penetrate a 200 pound hog stem to stern.

I came into this world kicking, screaming, and covered in someone elses blood. I plan to go out the same way.

I use a heat treated 50/50 alloy with a touch of tin in my leverguns. Limited results so far but all good! Latest success story was first CB kill with a 35 Rem, punched thru the gristle plate of a 225-250lb boar and smashed both shoulders but did not exit. Never took another step, tho. Second kill w/ that combo was a few hours later on a 70-80lb sow with an ear shot. A doe shot with a 45-70 of the same alloy didn't have an impressive wound channel or exit wound but she made it less than 50 yds after a frontal shot to the chest. Haven't recovered a boolit yet but suspect expansion is modest and a GC ensures that all the lead makes it out the muzzle.

Life Member NRA, TSRA
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of used wheelweights.

Boolit Bub Join DateJan 2010Posts47

Malleability, or plasticity, is NOT directly proportional to Brinell Hardness. It is, however, dependent on the crystalline structure of the alloy. Binary lead/tin alloys are very malleable as tin is very soluble in lead. It's why the blackpowder cartridge shooters love it for it's obturation in the bore at 10/1 or 20/1.

When you go to a tertiary lead/tin/antimony alloys, the proportion of tin to antimony is very important. Antimony is not very soluble in lead, and at over 2 percent the crystalline structure begins to be very brittle. Equal percentages of tin/antimony form an intermettalic compound which IS malleable.

Consider Lyman #2 alloy at 95/5/5 lead/tin/antimony versus hardball 92/2/6 lead/tin/antimony. Both have BHN of about 15. Lyman #2 is a malleable alloy that expands in rifle bullets very well depending on bullet type at appropriate cast bullet velocities. Make up a mix of 97/1.5/1.5 lead/tin/antimony with a BHN of about 9 and you have an alloy that expands at 900 to 1200 fps handgun velocities and is great for hollowpoints in handguns.

Try the hardball alloy in rifle bullets or cut it with lead for handguns and you will find that it fractures.

A very good explanation is provided by "From Ingot to Target:A Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunners" available on the LASC website. Read the hoolwpoint bullet section.

The old Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook has similar information.

Paborn

that's all good information.
i too rely on ww's and soft lead.
a flat nose.
and velocity.
the last two are where i try to really balance things.
the flatter then nose the less velocity needed/used.

you have to balance the alloy out for mold fill and fit to your rifle.
the best alloy in the world don't do you much good if everything is crooked/sloppy in the barell.
you can modify the mold to work with you also.
once you have your fit try reducing the alloy with soft lead a little at a time and see how it does for you.

it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

the more i find out about shootin boolits, the more it contradicts everything i ever learned about shooting jaxketed.

Thanks to all for the feedback. To be honest, I'm reading information that I don't understand yet, but I'll get there.

The problem we have in our country today is there are more who vote for a living than work for a living !

Keep reading and you'll do fine. The correct lube will help alot too. With air cooled clip on wheel weight and LBT Blue Soft I was going past 2000 FPS in a .32 Win. Special.

Now that I think about it, everything in signature is with air cooled COWW. From 850 FPS to 2300 FPS.

Recent cast boolit hunts:
Doe, 452424 in a 45 Colt revolver.
11 pointer, Ac Mold 45-300G in a 45 Colt lever action. "The wonder shot"
Doe, H&G 503 clone in a 44 revolver.
3 pointer Ac Mold 32-170A in a model 94
Doe with a Ac molds 45-300G smokeless inline muzzleloader pushing hard with AA5744.

I have been wondering the same thing concerning deer hunting (100-125 lb deer). What mixture of coww and pure lead for a 120g rn 30 cal bullet going about 1500fps? And should it be water cooled or air cooled? Should a bullet like that be hollow-pointed, or no need?

Thanks!
Glenn

Boolit Man Join DateApr 2010LocationSE IowaPosts85

I have shot a bunch of deer over the past and my best advice is to use an alloy that shoots well in your rifle, with a flat nose preferably, shoot them behind the shoulder thru the lungs. Then wait for the life to come out before you follow the blood trail. More than likely they will not go far. Bang flops do not always happen and dead is dead. Shooting cast is more like a bow hunter than a 7mm wizz bang and the bigger the bore the faster you let the air out Russ

Boolit Master Join DateJan 2010Posts404

I also go as soft as I can get away with and as flat-nosed as I can. It's a winning combination, but unfortunately varies from gun to gun so you will have to play with yours and find out where exactly that perfect point is.

Green Side of Uncle Sam's Canoe Club (00-05)
NRA Certified Instructor
TX CHL Instructor
Hunter Safety Instructor

I can tell you this. I shoot an RCBS 35-200-FN in my 358 Winchester at 35 rem velocities. If you make your boolits out of 50/50 and air cool them, it will make hamburger out of a deer. Way too soft. I started a thread here in hunting about "the cast lead boolit is the most effective projectile in the world" I show graphic pictures of what happens when you hit Bambi with a soft, 2000+ fps boolit. It ain't pretty.

Cast your boolits out of 50/50.
Water quench them (ie. drop them from the mold into cold water)
Lube with FWFL.
Keep your speed under 2000fps
Enjoy clean kills.

Tim Malcolm

Mat 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Thomas Edward Lawrence

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Abbreviations used in Reloading
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