Might be wrong bullet for this rifle

I've used up almost all the bullets from my borrowed molds so now I'm beginning to work with bullets from my own molds . The first one I wanted to work with is the Lyman 225462 I wanted to use this bullet in this particular Savage model 110 because flat nosed bullets tend to hang-up during feeding from the magazine . First I found that with my bullets sized at .2253" (ish) the best overall length of loaded ammo is 2.057" . At 2.060 you can feel the bullets pushing into the rifling when chambering and accuracy is worse than when I seat them a little shorter . I also tried seating them to 2.040" and that went nowhere as well .

With bullets seated to 2.057" , no gas checks , tumble lubed and sized then light tumble with paste wax . I used pistol primers and three point three grains of Bullseye at thirty yards and got ten shot groups I could cover with a nickle . OK now to me THAT shoots , I'm trying to make the rifle do that with a powder that gets more velocity now . In the past with other bullets , eight grains of Unique and a pistol primer will shoot like that . Not with this 225462 bullet though , I backed off the charge and ran it up to eight point two and no joy . I backed off the charge and swtiched to small rifle primers ... nope ! I went from Javalina lube to LBT , and no real big difference . I changed crimp from light to none and even tried a LEE factory crimp and that didn't help .

What is frustraing is the last bullet I used was the RCBS 22-55-SP with the same eight grain charge , pistol primer , light crimp and it would almost go into the same hole . All the while with a velocity of about twenty-one hundred feet per second . Feeding wasn't positive but it shot great .

I'm thinking along the line of trying Hercules twenty-four hundred , in the past with the RCBS bullet it was reasonably accurate when used in an eleven grain charge . I went to using Unique because it left cases cleaner and had less of a velocity deviation . I wonder with the longer bearing surface of the 225462 if twenty-four hundred would burn a little better now . I have about forty bullets checked and lubed with LBT I could try and about fifty checked and lubed with Alox/paste wax .

Anybody got some insight about these Savage 110 rifles and the Lyman 225462 bullets ? I'd like to find a load I can make by the ammo can full using the Dillon So I'm staying away from fillers and such .

Jack

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can't figure out what's wrong

Boolit Bub Join DateSep 2010Posts20

For the life of me I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. I'm not getting a good fill with my two molds. I've tried low heat(650), high heat(800), and in between. One mold is a NOE 9mm 135gr 5 cavity mold and the other is a Lee 45 230gr 6 cavity. I'm getting fins on the NOE mold and have detail cleaned the inside of the mold to remove any little pieces of lead that would prevent closure. No dice.

Here is my process:

Clean mold
Spray Frankfort arsenal bullet release
Heat lead(Lee 20lb bottom pour)
Place mold on rim of pot to heat up
Apply NOE lube on spree plate per instructions
Pour probably 20-30 bullets and discard them to further heat mold
Cast at approximately 700-750

I spent probably 5 hours tonight trying to figure this out to now avail. The 45s fill in better than the 9mm NOE mold at this point but there's still a little spot that is not filling out(see pic below).

Please help, this is very discouraging.

Last edited by creature; Today at 03:10 AM.

I don't see the "pic below", but have a few thoughts. First, dump that Frankfurt Arsenal bullet release. Cleaning it out of your molds is going to be a challenge, but get as much out with brake cleaner or the like as you can. Boil both molds in a pot of water with some dishwashing soap in it, then scub them with a toothbrush. Your objective is to get ALL foreign material out of those molds, especially any type of oil. The sprue plate lube should be applied VERY sparingly. If you can see it, you've used too much. A drop at the hinge pin with the sprue plate open, and then run your finger over the hinge pin screw and onto the bottom of the sprue plate. If your doing it right there will be just a slight change in the color/hue of the bottom of the sprue plate. If you get any lube into a cavity, start all over with the boiling in water! Second, I assume (and you know what that means) that both of your molds are aluminum. Aluminum molds both absorb an release heat faster than steel or brass molds. This doesn't make them better or worse, just different. I find that placing my aluminum molds on the edge of the pot doesn't help a lot. I had to get a hotplate (thrift store - $12) with a sheet of steel on top to get, and help keep, my molds hot enough until the correct casting tempo was attained. Third, check your alloy content. There are enough posts on this forum for even an old dummy like me to learn a little about the metalugy envolve in our hobby/holy calling. I hope that this helps, and you can rely on the fine folks on this forum to help however possible. There are some very learned people on here that are happy to help. I've only been doing this for around 45 years, and I learn something every time I log in!

I forgot to address the fins on the NOE mold boolits. Check the locator pins and see if they may be keeping the mold from closing completely. If you got the mold new, it should have had instructions for doing this and heating it in an oven a few times, etc. The pins can be driven in, carefully, if that's the problem.

Last edited by Sensai; Today at 03:55 AM. Reason: add about pins

Gary

Takeoffs are optional, landings are manditory.

Bet you got the sprue lube in the cavities.

Get rid of the mould release entirely. Not needed, will just lead to undersized bullets in many cases.

Melt temp isn't that important for fill out, MOULD temp is what matters. A faster casting tempo may help, keeps mould temp up. No dumping bullets then stopping to look at them, it allows the mould to cool too much.

Ditch the mold release
Clean the mold thoroughly
Flux your melt
Remove the dross
Heat up you mold
Start casting again

Last edited by ku4hx; Today at 04:39 AM.

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.", old Chinese proverb.

creature, chalk this up as a valuable learning experience. You now know what happens when you get oil in the cavities. As was mentioned already, the sprue lube (Bull Plate) that came with your mold is great stuff but a little goes a very long way. It's not so great inside the cavities as you have learned.

Also already mentioned, throw away the mold release gunk. If you don't tell the garbage man it's in with the trash he may take it off your hands for you. You don't need to smoke the mold either, that is nothing more than an old wives tale. The very best casting mold is a clean mold.

Rick

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Boolit Bub Join DateSep 2010Posts20

Thanks a bunch for the responses guys. I will get to work on cleaning the hell out of them tonight. Also, I've heard of guys just submerging their molds into the lead for a few seconds until it comes out without lead on it. Would that work? I don't have access to a hot plate at the moment. Can a mold be heated too hot(obviously aside from heating it to the point of )?

I forgot to mention, I'm using 100% wheel . It's all I have access to right now.

Pics are up, can you guys see them?

Don't submerge the mould. Placing a corner in the melt can speed up heating the mould. The mould needs to be hot, well over 300 degrees, to cast well.

That sprue lube will burn out pretty quick with regular use of the mould. Probably with in 50 pours or so.

I would scrub the mould well with an old toothbrush and some Comet. It will remove the oil and some of the lube release.

Make sure mould is totally dry then use it more. Dip one corner of mould 1/4 in into the melt for 30 to 45 seconds. A small drop of water placed on opposite end of mould should sizzle instantly when mould is hot enough. Just don't get water on the melt. A drop on end of finger tough he'd to mould tells you what you need to know.

Photos told me sadly what problem was. Classic look of oil in mould bullets.

Everyone is correct. The only stuff I trusted in a cavity was Rapine Mold Prep, microfine graphite. A clean mold is best.
I heat my molds in my little furnace set to 500* and never get a bad boolit, the first pours are perfect. Dipping the corner of the mold in the melt helps but the sprue plate can sill be cold, play a propane torch around on it and get it hotter.

See the pics. Both molds seem to have the same problem, whatever it turns out to be.

The usual guess is that molds are too cool. Dipping my aluminum molds in the melt is standard practice anymore...the first few pours after dipping the mold usually take 15-20 seconds to solidify. Then, using my handy damp-rag-in-a-plate I am able to control the temp

I've over lubed many molds and a very hot melt accompanied by a hot mold has gotten rid of the excess. Others probably have more sophisticated methods but that has worked for me

those pictures showed the mold as being plenty hot.
like waay too hot actually.
the oil in the cavity's is what is causing you all the grief.
you can see the solvents gassing off and causing the squiggles on the bottom
band of the boolits.

it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

the more i find out about shootin boolits, the more it contradicts everything i ever learned about shooting jaxketed.

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Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt"

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Wrong forum please delete

Forum Rules Firearms Safety Firearms Photos Links Library Lost Password Email Changes Sorry, I could not read the content fromt this page.

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45ACP leading like crazy - what am I doing wrong

^^^ you can lap your die and open it up... no lathe needed just a dowel, sandpaper, and oil:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...hlight=lap+die

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frosted bullets. what is wrong with them

so besides appearance is there something wrong structurely with frosted bullets?

Last edited by Smoke4320; Today at 06:50 AM.

I've never cranked any frosted bullets out. But from everything I gather, your bullet batter is too hot.
I've heard said that there is nothing wrong with them, and that a frosted bullet might retain more lube.
Hell, I don't know.

If something is worth shooting once, it's worth shooting a bunch of times.

Could be one or more of the following.
Casting too fast(Re, mold too hot)
Mold too hot.
Lead too hot.

General consensus seems to be that a frosted bullet retains lube better. There's some guys here who strive for frosted bullets. Me personally, as long as there is proper fillout and no wrinkles and good bases, they're going to be lubesized and loaded.

Give us this day our daily lead.

Sic Semper Tyrannis.

If you don't want 1984 you're going to need some 1776.
WWGWD

Nothing is wrong with them. Lube them then shoot them.

I'd rather err on the side of frosted boolits!

As long as the frosty boolit is up; to size, to weight, and well filled out, size and shoot them! To size,,-- they're as big in diameter as a non-frosty boolit. To weight--,, if they weigh the same,(in the approximate weight range). Well filled out--,, the edges of the driving bands are sharp and the bottom edge is completely filled out.

I find that the frosted boolit is usually smaller by at least .001 and can weigh up to 3-4 grains less than a shiny one.

Now for a definition of just what is considered frosted; There isn't one! What I consider frosty another considers "[U]a lighter gray color[U/] Are these frosted??

I don't consider any of those to be frosted. To me a frosted boolit looks like they're galvanized. Apparent crystals on the surface of the boolit.

He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog.
You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart.
You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion."

?At the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat?--Theodore Roosevelt

The only problem with frosted bullets is that sometimes you get SBS (shrunken boolit syndrome) where the boollit is not filled out near the bands and base - other than that they may even be more consistent (weight wise) than bright shinny boolit!

If they have SBS I put them in the recycle box to be remelted and cast, other wise I just shoot them. I took 2 elk's with frosted boolits, one in a 45/70 and one in a 45/90.

I took 2 elk's with frosted boolitsBy any chance, were the elk offended?

If something is worth shooting once, it's worth shooting a bunch of times.

I usually try to get frosted boolits from a mold at first. That means everything is up to heat. Then I will open the hot mold between pours for about a 3 count to cool it off slowly till my boolits just lose the "galvanized" look. I like a little grey color. But, I am also sizing .001 to .002 from as cast diamater and I have not noticed a change in POI in boolits varying up to two grains in total weight.

I came into this world kicking, screaming, and covered in someone elses blood. I plan to go out the same way.

so besides appearance is there something wrong structurely with frosted bullets?Maybe, maybe not.

mild frosting is no problem but heavy frosting can reduce the diameter significantly.

See:

http://www.reloadingtips.com/how_to/frosted-bullets.htm

Frosting is always caused by the MOLD being to hot.

You can have frosting with the alloy at 600 degrees if you cast too fast.

.

First reload: .22 Hornet. 1956.

Where is John Galt?

(If you don't know, you owe it to yourself to find out. )
.

By any chance, were the elk offended?

Nope - just dead

Here's my take on frosted bullets. When the melt is hot, up way more than necessary, my bullets drop small (I don't have temperatures handy, but frosted is an indication, for me, that temps. are up). For me, a cooler alloy, and a mold cooler (but still hot enough for good fill out) will drop bullets closer to designed diameter. I have one mold that will make great bullets all day, slightly frosted, but .001"-.002" smaller than I need. For this mold it can be a balancing act of temperatures to get the bullets a bit larger...

Thanks for all the answers. was really interested in structure issues.
mostly concerning my hunting rounds. breaking apart on impact ect
Plan on powdercoating everything anyway and resizing.

I haven't heard of any claims of structure change due to frosting, nor ever experienced such.

I actually like mildly frosted boolits if the frosting is uniform or nearly so. May be bogus, but I always felt frosted boolits held thinned LLA better and actually shot a mite better too.

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.", old Chinese proverb.

Lyman mentioned bullets alloy being brittle but, look at what they tested with. They were using #2 and Linotype in more bullet alloy, hardening them up and possibly heat-treating. In that respect, too much heat could enter the equation. As far as ordinary wheelweight, I don't think it's going to matter that much.

Lyman may have been shooting steel or some other hard target in their testing too.

It's only something to keep in mind when adjusting temperature and alloy, not set in stone anywhere.
Good Luck,
Ron

In all, the .41 Magnum would be one of my top choices for an all-around handgun if I were allowed to have only one. - Bart Skelton

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Ordered wrong mold. Help please!

I purchased, from a gun auction, what I thought was a 9mm 124gr RN mold. What I got was a gas check version of that mold. I only discovered this after my first casting session with this mold. Now I remember a thread back when that told of a service one of our members provides to eliminate the GS feature from molds. I tried the search feature and came up with nothing. Can someone steer me in the right direction, it would be much appreciated.

Try Eric he does a great job.

http://www.hollowpointmold.com/

Try 'em out first. Unless you've already had success with cast 9mm, you may just find the gc bullets to be a blessing.

+ to trying them out first.
Also, try a few with no GC. In soft lead, they may surprise you.

Boolit Master Join DateJan 2010LocationTom, in Gloucester, VAPosts733

I just got three six-cavity molds back from Eric. He removed all 18 gas check shanks, and the workmanship is beautiful.

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What did i do wrong?

flux your alloy well as it's getting up to tempI gotta disagree with Recluse on that point. I never start fluxing until the melt is up to casting temp, for me that's 700 degrees. Why? Because even though you may think the alloy is melted (at complete liquidus) it may not be, different metals (antimony) melt at different temps and everything in the alloy may not be at complete liquidus. I flux once complete liquidus is achieved and I know that at casting temp it is.

Rick

"The people never give up their freedom . . . Except under some delusion." Edmund Burke

"Let us remember that if we suffer tamely a lawless attack on our liberty, we encourage it." Samuel Adams

One side is for Liberty and the Constitution and they are called domestic terrorist, anti-American, nazi's and mobsters. Just what is the side using these terms for?

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[QUOTE=geargnasher;2113967]Ditto the previous responses.

What mould is that? I wants one that casts a boolit about like that for .45 Colts.

Gear[/QUOTE

Lee has them in 6 cav. at .452 in 200-255-and 300 gr.

the lee 255 rnf is a decent looking boolit.
gear:
i have a bunch of lyman 452664's allready made up and stuff if you want some p.m. me.
heck i could re-lube them with 61.1 if you want.
or just make some and send them plain ,,whatever.

it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

the more i find out about shootin boolits, the more it contradicts everything i ever learned about shooting jaxketed.

Boolit Mold Join DateFeb 2013LocationcommieforniaPosts7

Thanks John, everywhere I've looked they're about $40+ and i was waiting till next payday. So it seems people use this mold for 9mm as well, i have a .380 bersa you guys think this would work in that as well? Or do you think it would need the round nose shape to feed reliably?

I split the difference between Recluse's and CB Rick's fluxing methods--I do both. I add wood shavings soon after the melt begins, and once again when the alloy is up to temp. Most of my metal has been fluxed pretty thoroughly during its smelt-driven domestication from free-range WWs or other feral sourcings, so these clean-ups don't yield a whole lot of impurities......but I do get a little, so it doesn't hurt to flux--as long as you aren't removing good metal inadvertently during the skim-out.

Far more often than not, heat is your friend and ally when dealing with lead alloy as a boolit or jig head/sinker caster.

History is always ambiguous, if honestly presented--Stephen E. Ambrose

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