Wednesday, July 31, 2013

Looking to start reloading, need input on equipment

The price bump is actually more like $50. (Lee's Challenger lists for $66 and the Lee Classic Turret for $105)

Speed and convenience. A practiced person can easily double his speed if that is important to you.

Look at it this way.

Dies for your three calibers: $100 to $120
Decent scale: $25 to $80
Manual $35 Two, $70.
Priming system $25
Calipers $30
Tumbler 430
Miscellaneous small tools $50

About $330 without a press

$65 for a Lee Challenger (a bit more for the superior Classic Cast) press brings you to $395
$105 for a Classic Turret brings you to $455 (the extra $20 for a couple of extra turrets
A 15% bump in cost for a press that you will keep for a very long time, even if you go to a progressive for one or two of your calibers.

What is $50 in ammunition? 3 boxes? Of course, the turret will cost you more because you will be able to shoot more.

If you do more than 50 to 100 rounds at a sitting, you will appreciate the turret over the single stage, at least for handgun ammunition.

What is the operational difference between a single stage and a turret press?

Short answer:

A single stage can only do batch operation, turret can do continuous operation or batch almost equally well.

Batch operation is slower than continuous operation because with continuous processing you only insert and remove the cartridge case once per cartridge the case going through all the loading steps without ever exiting the press). With batch processing, you handle the case through multiple insert-remove cycles. Thus a Turret can be maybe 2 to 4 times as fast as a single stage.

Long answer:

A turret is a single stage with multiple die stations. That is the only operational difference. But that difference allows a turret to do either continuous operation or batch where a single stage is practical only for batch processing.

Single stages tend to be (but are not necessarily) stronger and stiffer. This is mostly because single stages' frames are usually of one casting where turrets are of at least two parts assembled, and they move, which pretty much requires some clearance. In practice, the difference is vanishingly small. But we still argue over it.

Like a single stage, a turret press does only one thing (operation, like size/deprime, belling case mouth, seat/crimp) at a time, but switching between those is nearly instantaneous. This makes continuous processing practical. (In contrast to progressive presses do multiple different steps simultaneously.)

Batch processing; you can do your batches in 50 as I do(did) or 20 or 100 or 1,000. But the operations are the same. (For pistol) Size/deprime and prime 50 rounds, then switch dies and bell and charge 50 rounds. Inspect the charges in a batch and switch dies. Seat and crimp 50 rounds. Batch is done. Move on to the next batch.

Continuous processing: Put an empty case in the press and do all the operations (size/deprime, bell/charge, seat/crimp) and remove the finished cartridge only when all the steps are done. This saves a lot of handling the cases (at least three insertion-removal cycles) and amounts to a lot of time saved.

If the press indexes the dies automatically, this saves a LOT of time. If you index the die stations manually, it is a little slower, but still much faster than batch processing.

Turret presses can do either batch processing (as a single stage) or continuous processing with equal facility.

I suggest you view the many (almost too many) videos showing the operation of various presses.

Lost Sheep

Last edited by Lost Sheep; Today at 02:27 AM.

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C&R NFA transportation question...

I deleted my original reply as it was incorrect. Here is what BATFE says [italics mine]:

Q. Does the registered owner of a destructive device, machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle need authorization to lawfully transport such items interstate?

A. Yes, unless the owner is a qualified dealer, manufacturer or importer, or a licensed collector transporting only curios or relics. Prior approval must be obtained, even if the move is temporary. Approval is requested by either submitting a letter containing all necessary information, or by submitting ATF Form 5320.20 to the Bureau of ATF, NFA Branch. Possession of the firearms also must comply with all State and local laws.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a) (4), 27 CFR 478.28]


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Marlin X7 lug lapping, the hard way

Some of you in TV land may remember my post about my groups with this rifle at 1,000 yards. Well after a conversation with MZ5 about one of his predators I thought I should bring this pig back out. This 25-06 never did like rapid fire, but as this is my coyote gun it doesn't matter much.
After some cleaning and fooling around with firing pin protrusion, I looked at the locking lugs, Oye Vey! I had a narrow ridge on one side and zip on the other. Apparently the floating bolt head wasn't enough.
It was about that time I realized I was out of my 1200 grit polishing compound, so I had to scrounge the next best thing.
That turned out to be JB Bore Paste, which is only about as abrasive as toothpaste. Well as it turns out, that will work over a large period of time. I highly recommend some music and sipping whiskey. After working the bolt handle for longer than i wanted to; I ended up with 100% mirror polished contact on one side, and very good contact on about 75% of the other lug.
The nice thing about the X7's, since they are a nut gun; headspace is easily reset if needed.

Thank heavens this was a Marlin and not a Ruger! Although I can't prove it, my claim is that Ruger casts their receivers with a tungsten coating. Those babies are tough!


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Making a junker shoot

I picked up a M-700, 270 last week for the action to build another rifle with. I've done this many times in the past and enjoy taking a piece of junk and see just how good I can make it shoot, before I take it apart to build the one I want.

This latest rifle and a mild bend in the barrel, someone had painted it flat black, inside the action, bolt, trigger assy, everything. At first I though it was Ceracoated, but there were large places on the barrel it was coming off. Washed it all down the Denatured Alcohol, that took every bit of what ever it was off and it looks band new now. I chucked it up in the lathe and using hydraulic rams I straightened the barrel to within .001" and lightened the trigger pull to 2.5 pounds. I also cleaned several years of carbon out of the barrel and fixed a problem with the scope.

I'm sure whom ever had this thing is saying they would never own another 700, because no way could they have hit anything with it. They probably got mad and did something that bent the barrel.

I had some 270's already loaded so I took it out today and shot three, three shot groups @ 100 yards and they averaged about 1 1/2" groups

Since this is still a stock, factory rifle, other than the trigger adjustment and the only one I have, I've gotten a brainfart. I'm pretty dang good and making a rifle shoot extremely well so I'm thinking of getting a few factory loads and shoot a couple of groups for a baseline. Then I will start working my magic and documenting everything as I go. Doing all my little tricks that most anyone can do to the rifle (no special machine work like blue printing), and building an accurate load just to show how much one can improve a rifle with the proper TLC.

The problem is, this may be a long drawn out project if I get it done. The first of August I will be going back to Texas for a few months.

Last edited by BKeith; Yesterday at 05:15 PM.

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WTT Large Rifle Primers for Large Pistol Primers (upstate NY)

I'm looking to trade about 500-700 Winchester WLPs for any brand of Large Pistol Primers, although I'd prefer CCI. Just bought a 1911 and primers are my limiting reagent.

I'm in Waterford NY. Willing to drive 25 miles in any radius.

Will also purchase LPPs if desired.

I can do online sales/trades but I'd imagine hazmat applies, and I don't want to pay the hazmat, so FTF is preferred.

Mods: If this is inappropriate for this forum please move it to the proper one.

Best,

-Mike

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Help picking scope

...look through a bunch of scopes.... Best optic advice ever!

IMO, the market has incredibly good scopes at most price points....

Sure <$50 or names like Leapers and Barska are generally pretty crummy, but other than that, there are a lot of very usable scopes. I find I like Simmons, even though they are cheap. Simmons has made some gems in Japan, but even their China scopes are good enough for most people.

I find under $200ish, my biggest complaint is the effort to zero the scope. Then forget about turning turrets! That would have the repeat ability of wing shooting a rifle!

I find at $300 or so, you get really good mechanicals with decent glass.

At $700 or so, mechanicals, glass and features are pretty good.

The really high end scopes have the best of all, are purpose built and have good durability without extreme weight.

These are all very general points..you can find deals like most Simmons, Super Sniper, Weaver T series, earlier Burris XTR, etc which are real gems.

A YouTube guy Nutnfancy has an hour on mid range AR optics which shows some gems and isn't too far away from good hunting scope advice.

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Tuesday, July 30, 2013

What's a 3/4 full 5 gallon bucket of random brass worth?

Cast Boolits - Dedicated To The World Of Cast Bullets!

I was at a scrapyard earlier(found out a buddy from high school is the manager there)

Anyways, he offered me a 3/4 full bucket of random brass for $100, 48lbs worth.

Worth it or not? I glanced through the top layer or two and found about 8-10 split necks, out of roughly 100-150 pieces.

There is a lot of different brass in the bucket, mostly rifle brass it would appear.

Would you buy it to resale?

I will fear no evil, for thou art with me.
workin @ Ft. bragg
Yellow brass scrap value is $2 ish a pound....48x2 is $96..... so no I don't see any reason to buy it just to resale it...no money there.

.....as a general rule I never buy scrap brass at the junk yard.....you just don't know what the brass has been through, not worth the risk.

I went back and looked through it a little more thorough, about 1 in 3 cases had split necks and several were bulged.

I was curious, it was the first time I've been down there and I'd never seen brass at a scrapyard before(never really looked), at first glance, thought it might be a decent investment, until pencil went to paper and I figured out that the r.o.i. wouldn't be worth a durn.

Thanks

I will fear no evil, for thou art with me.
The yard I go to does get large quantities of brass in every once in a while. Just like wheel weights he allows me to go through and pick out specifically what I want. The brass is range brass just like some of the stuff offered here. I'm fortunate that I am able to take home jet what I want.
"It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather, we should thank God that such men lived." - George Patton
Well it sounds like someones rejects , I crush my cases when I reject them for necks , cracks or primer pocket issues , I would consider buying some if they were a caliber I needed and they were not discards , I did sell a half a bucket of rejects and berdan primed to the local scrap yard , $40.00 for it.
I started to skip this thread just because it seemed to have a giant hole in the logic sequence. However, I have bought and sold brass for some years and know that the price seems high for such unknown factors. I think his price is close to double what it should be when all the labor and risk of caliber is on you.
Not to me. There's just no way you can tell what the stuff has been exposed to. It might be there because some commercial reloaded determined it was worn out. All that glitters is not gold sort of thing.
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.", old Chinese proverb.
Unless he can tell you it came from a range clean up, then stay away from it.

The only people that bother to pick up brass are reloaders. That means the cases have already been rejected. Also the high occurrance of split necks should tell you to stay away also.

truckjohn is online now Boolit Master Join DateJan 2007LocationUpstate, SCPosts233
Not any more buddy...
There are lots of folks combing the ranges now who just want to sell brass to the scrappers.... Many of them don't even shoot... but they show up on Weekends and scoop up all the range brass... Can't fault them for the effort and their work does keep the ranges clean.... but Reloaders don't have the chance at that brass because the Scrappers pick it all up...

If you really are curious about whether it's worth it or not.... Check out Gunbroker and search up what brass is selling for.... It's selling for less than you would think - especially common Non-military stuff like 40 S&W and 270.... That stuff never really saw Ammo shortages like 308 and 223 did....

Thanks

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Abbreviations used in Reloading
Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt"


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45 70 bullets

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These are from the same mould I had made from Old West Bullet Moulds, I did not make them and I cant say who did, but I cant thank them enough, I did pay a fair price for them, 547gr Silhouette bullets alloy is 1-20 with Eagle Black Powder Lube. I'm not set up to smelter and don't have time to do everything it takes to get set up and learn and keep up at work My mom passed away and now dad is in the hospital he's breathing again and doing a little better, but I want to shoot. I went to the Carson ND shoot and had a great time they help me get acquainted with my new 45 70 sharps I had never shot a gun like this. I ordered some Hoke sights hope to get them soon. I have to reload some black powder bullets and learn the new sights. The last Carson meet they were rained out I did not get to go to the Sage Brush Black Powder Long Range Shoot in Mobridge SD we wanted to go to that but I was not ready!!! and I want my new sights and I wanted to shoot bullets from my Moulds. Things are looking up, I have 2 weeks off so I can shoot and visit with family, My wife has a motel so we can go to the ND. Badlands Black Powder Cartridge Match July 20 & 21 and the I'm off for the next 2 Carson shoots June 23 and July 28.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading
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Sig 556r 7.62x39

Really interested in this rifle, but before I commit I want to find out about ammo options.
What type of ammo runs good in it, wolf, silver bear, surplus ? Last edited by e-mishka; Today at 11:34 AM.

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Midway product notice, primers

Hello Folks,

I had signed up for a product arrival notice for Magtech LP primers. I was at my computer when the notice arrived, immediately clicked the link, and was told the product was already sold out. This was a matter of mere seconds.

The democrats claim that 90% of Americans support their agenda to outlaw guns. It appears that just the opposite is true. I'm not surprised.

Take care, Tom


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Scale Calibration weights

Real, "scientific" check weights can never be a bad thing but the notion that a reloader needs them to be able to safely load ammo is silly.

I have a couple dozen boxes of handgun and rifles bullets. I have yet to see a single bullet vary more than 0.6gr, and that is out of a very old Hornady 180gr 40cal box. The rifle bullets, I have Hornady, Sierra, Nosler, Barnes and Speer. I have to search through the boxes to find one that is off by more than +-0.1gr, with an occasional example over by 0.3gr, mostly in the Sierra and Barnes.

If you've got a box of 55gr Hornady, the vast majority are going to be either 55.0gr or 55.1gr.

Weigh a few individually. If your scale is telling you anything outside of 54.8-55.2 with any consistency, the SCALE is wrong, the bullets aren't off by that much. If you're consistently getting very close to 55.0gr, which is strongly suspect that you will, take 10 that weigh that amount and weigh them together (assuming the scale goes to 550.0gr). The most discrepancy they should have would be if they were all very slightly over (or under) weight and the errors added up to an extra (or short) 0.5gr or so, 549.5gr to 550.5gr.

This really is plenty close enough for reloading. We're not verifying the International Standard Kilogram here and checking for loss from radioactive decay.

Strictly speaking, your original question of "check my zero" requires no check weights, by definition. When there's no weight on the scale, it should say zero. It's verified.

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First handgun

Hey all! I just joined the forum yesterday and I've already got a question . I'm somewhat new to the world of firearms. I've been shooting since I can remember but always with other people guns and I never really did any of the maintenance or research involved with owning firearms. As a consequence I love guns but know very very little about them.

I got my very first gun for christmas. An off-the-shelf wal-mart special on a 12 gauge shotgun. Nothing fancy but very suitable for my needs. I've been shooting clay pigeons with it numerous times and my friends love going shooting too. I've loved the idea of owning my own guns ever since I got my shotgun and decided to add to my arsenal. I've been doing research for a while and last week I bought a 91/30 Mosin Nagant. Very satisfied with the rifled especially considering how cheap it was.

So... my question. The next thing I want to start researching is a good handgun. I've got this idea in my head that I need at least one rifle, one shotgun, and one handgun. That way I'll be prepared for whatever I need. The shotgun and rifle are mostly for hunting but I want a handgun primarily for home defense and concealed carry. It doesn't need to be anything with amazing range, and I'm not looking to blast a huge hole in whatever I'm shooting(or whoever if worse comes to worse). Mostly I'm looking for something reliable and something cheap(both in initial cost and the cost of ammunition).

So far my research has led me in the direction of a 357 revolver. I like the sound of revolvers being more reliable and general more straightforward weapons(besides... revolvers are freaking cool!). As far as getting a .357.... thats basically just what a lot of people seem to prefer. I don't really know why.

There's so much I don't know though I thought I'd put the question to you guys. I know it's a bit of a novel... but what does everyone think? What kind of handgun would be reliable, cheap, and just generally practical?


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Monday, July 29, 2013

.45 Auto Rim tumbling problem

Originally Posted by olbear View Post I'm fairly new at .45AR shooting (have a SW1917 & a Webley), I prefer .45AR to Moonclips too, but found the SW1917 just doesn't like ANY lead bullets I've tried (tumble/sideways @ 25yds). Good luck, & post any new ideas you come up withLike many old, vintage .45 revolvers, your 1917 may have an oversize bore. If you're shooting bullets intended for the .45 ACP autoloader, you're not getting a tight fit and that is murder on accuracy.

Slug the bore and measure to find out what you have, and measure the cylinder throats as well.

If the bore is much over .451" that is part of the problem. When you measure the cylinder throats, drop a bullet with your fingers into the chamber from the rear. If the throats are right, the bullet will drop right through with a slight nudge from your finger. If they let the bullet drop right through with no resistance, they are oversize. If you have to tap them through with a dowel and small hammer, they are too tight. That will contribute to the problem by swaging the bullet too small, so it tends to rattle down the bore rather than grab the rifling the way it should. Combine that with an oversize bore, and you'll be lucky to hit the side of a barn from 5 feet.

Tight chamber throats can be opened up a bit, and if the bore isn't too oversize you can usually find cast bullets that will fit it fairly well. In any case, use Auto Rim cases, so that you can get those bullets to fit right, as they are more flexible than the ACP case in those old revolvers.

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Questions about moving and my C&R FFL

I'm getting ready to move in a month and a half and have the following question:

On my FFL where it says Premises Address, is that my home address or where I maintain my collection and associated paperwork?

When I move, I will be maintaining a gun room with secure storage at my parent's house for a majority of my guns and reloading gear, and assorted accoutrements.


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BP Firearms shipping (in to MI) - am I missing something?

Please excuse the post but it does refer to BP firearms.

I've been looking at a number of different sites/suppliers as I look at the possibility of purchasing one of the Traditions Crockett Rifles - .32 cal. = obviously to come up with the best price I can. What has surprised me is that on a number of the sites, they state that they cannot ship to Michigan? Huh?

Why? Am I missing something or has something changed in regards to MI and shipping BP firearms in to the state?

I thought that BP firearms were not considered "firearms" but rather "antiques" - regardless of if they are original or reproductions. I haven't purchased a BP on line or from out of state (other than private purchase) for a number of years but I never had a problem before with ordering them from out of state and having them shipped.

I can go to Bass Pro Shop or Cabelas and purchase the Crockett Rifle - I need no permit or purchase license - so why are these sites restricting sales and shipping in to Michigan? The only restriction that I know of in this state is in regards to a required purchase permit (issued by the local police agency) in order to purchase a modern cartridge handgun. Of course any modern handgun/longgun has the usual FFL paperwork as well. I can go in to any store and purchase a BP pistol/rifle/shotgun with no problems at all.

Cheaper Than Dirt was one of the sites and there were several others as well. What gives? Can someone set me straight on this? Has something changed in regards to mail order out of state purchases for BP handguns/rifles/etc.?

Thanks.

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Sent my wish list to Ruger

That's a good idea. I often wonder if the top brass, R&D, or marketing guys ever surf our forums. They really should.

If they check here, I'll suggest three options in .32 that might actually sell. In case they don't, I'll pass it on directly.

1. A six-shot LCR in .32 H&R Magnum. After all, Ruger already makes higher capacity LCRs in the weaker .22 LR and .22 WMR. The .32 H&R keeps the capacity advantage and actually rivals the .38 special in terms of power, all with lower recoil. (Smith and Wesson did this on a J-Frame and even used with wear, they are still going for $500-$600 in current auctions.)

2. A 4" SP101 in .327 Federal Magnum. The initial offering was a little short for this round in my opinion. This round gains nicely on an extra inch and should handle better. Perhaps it was the .327 being marketed heavily as a self-defense round that helped manufacturers select barrel lengths but such marketing also pigeon-holed an impressive new round that still hasn't reached its potential.

3. A 6" GP100 in .327 Federal Magnum. Following from number 2 above, the hefty 7-shot GP100 currently produced in .327 Federal Magnum occupies interesting territory. It's pretty heavy for concealed carry. So is it duty carry? At that size and weight, you can get 7 .357s in a 686+. We need something to make this one special. Give this gun a home. Put it in a 6" barrel and let it shine.


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New Cobra FS380 Thoughts

I bought one of these new for $106. My initial impression is not bad, if you don't go into it expecting something that its not.

I know that a lot of people bash these guns, but I also realize that a lot of people who bash these guns haven't owned one. So, as speaking as someone with one, I thought I'd share my thoughts.

I thought for about $100 it would be a good fooling around gun. Not something that I'd want to rely on in a pinch, but it would better than nothing. For the price, it was something that I was willing to work on without fear of throwing away a pile of cash.

The gun looks pretty good in the box. The (nickel) finish looked good. though it might some kind of paint or powder coat. The gun is heavy. The frame is some sort of alloy. I haven't put a magnet to it, but I'd guess it is steel based on the weight. Too heavy to carry, I would think. There is no stop to keep the slide open. The hammer is internal. The gun will fire with the magazine removed. There's not a real good way to tell if its loaded, but you can tell if its cocked by a small pin at the back showing that its cocked. To say the least, it has no bells or whistles.

New out of the box, the feed ramp was full of burrs. I don't see how it could feed properly in that condition. I mean it had big pieces of metal sticking up on the feed ramp. I disassembled the gun and polished the feed ramp with a dremel tool and jeweler's rouge. With the feed ramp polished, I took it to the range and shot 150 rounds through it. I had ZERO failure to feed problems. I had zero misfires. The only issue I had was about 20% of the time, the last round in the magazine wouldn't eject all the way. I'm not sure why at this point, but I'm thinking its the magazine. As far as acuracy, at 15' I was putting the bullet through the bullseye consistently. The back site is small, but it isn't worthless like people say. Its just small and requires a bit more aiming. Paint on the sites would help. I shot Walmart Winchester white box ammo with the blunt nose bullets. Pretty good for a $100 gun that most people think is a piece of junk.

After shooting it, I brought it home and cleaned it and noticed a couple of spots where the slide and frame had burrs from the manufacturing process that had not been removed. (Actually, I think these parts are cast and these were the seams.) The primers were not being struck in the center. I'm thinking these burrs might have been keeping the slide from sitting in the right position. I haven't been back out to the range to test my theory. Like I said though, every single round fired every time.

Overall, I'm pleased with it for $100. Its a good foolin' around gun. It would be a good plinker. Would I carry it? No. Would it be my first choice to take into battle? No. Would I brag I have a Cobra? Heck, no. But for what it is, I'm pretty happy with it. I would say to treat this gun more like it is a partially assembled kit and that it needs some detail work to make it usable and you'll be thinking about it correctly. You're supplying the last $15 of labor that the factory omitted.


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My CCW and Concealed Carry Holster Seminar

The most important point that I attempted to drive home was the importance of situational awareness in all facets of day to day life Thank you for stressing that in your seminar...

What kind of demographics were your audience? Already carry? Thinking of carrying? Never held a gun?

Sgt Lumpy


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Sunday, July 28, 2013

Remington 870 crowning question.

Remington 870 crowning question. So, I'm not sure if this should go here, or in the gunsmithing section, but I think it's more shotgun related than gunsmithing related, so I"m going to post it here.

I recently acquired as part of a trade a Remington 870 wingmaster that someone has bubba'd into a tactical gun.
The barrel is cut down to 20" - I think, but I haven't measured it yet - and it looks like it was done with either a dremel of a hacksaw. Not pretty.

So, my goal is to turn it into a usable and more attractive turkey/HD gun, and I have a few questions.

First and really most important, how likely is it that I can get the remainder of the barrel tapped to take screw in chokes? And, what's that likely to cost? Is it something that the average run of the mill smith should be able to do, or is it something that I should send away and have done by a specialist?
Would is be a better idea to just try to get it re crowned, and find something else for hunting?

Second, since I have no bead anyway, and I like ghost rings I was looking at the XS banded front sight. Does anyone have experience with it? It seems sturdier than the soldered versions, and would certainly be easy to install. They're not exactly cheap, but trijicon would probably be useful for hunting in the woods, and it would certainly work well for use as an HD gun.

Lastly, is has an atrocious hard plastic pistol grip stock on it right now. I was planning on finding a classic looking set of wood stocks, but if I'm planning on hauling it around the woods all day would something synthetic - like magpul's new stock - be preferable. In looking at the new guns it seems like most of the turkey guns are synthetic, so I assume there's some sort of reason.

Thanks in advance, and I'll be sure to post some pictures once I have some "afters" to go with the "befores".


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Cast Rifle Bullet FPS

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mattd is offline Boolit Mold Join DateMar 2013LocationSt Louis, MOPosts9

I haven't cast for a rifle bullet yet, but have been wanting to get one for my 30-06. From reading about it, it sounds like I'll need to keep velocity to around 2-2200fps at the top end. Is that a general rule for any bullet weight? My thought is a 170g at 2000fps is going to be a little better hunting bullet then a 150g at 2000fps.
Are you running gas check cast? I shoot gas check cast sized .311 out of a 30-06 @ 1600 FPS and the same out of a 300 WM @ 2100 FPS. Both will shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yds. You will have to shoot a range of velocitys and powders and sizes and seating depth to find what will work in your rifle. I have had best luck with IMR SR 4759 powder. The mould I use is a Lyman 311284, 210 gr +/-. Good luck and have fun working up your load.
To get good performance from cast loads from your .30-'06 for hunting you want to have a bullet as heavy as you can stabilize, with as blunt a shape with large meplat as will feed. I have not had good success with roundnosed bullets, and would rather have a soft bullet with a big flat nose at .32-40 blackpowder velocities which will expand and stay together than a harder, streamlined bullet which zips through game with little disturbance.

To get reliable expansion with good weight retention, without the bullet fragmenting and breaking up, you want to limit bullet hardness to about 14 BHN. But if you use a large flatnosed design in which the meplat in a .30 cal. is at least 0.25", then you can use a harder, heat treated bullet which will stand full velocity and it will have good killing power.

This is the bullet I use in my .30-30 Winchester at ballistics approximating the .32-40 Winchester, which is a reliable deer killer at woods ranges.Name: 30-180RCBSModified175PlainbaseCupPoint2.jpg<br />Views: 131<br />Size: 66.7 KB

A bullet of this shape with a gaschecked base, with suitable alloy and lubrication can be driven to about 2000 fps, and would be effective on deer to about 150 yards, with results similar to .30-30 factory loads. A heavier 220-gr. bullet of this general shape would approximate .30-40 Krag energy levels and would be better for larger animals over 100kg.

it's not the top velocity.
however without going through a bunch of measuring, tinkering, measuring, having a custom mold cut, alloy manipulation, brass manipulation, powder re-work, fillers, buffers, primer testing, diameter testing, and another powder work-up.

you are going to be limited in velocity to about 1900 fps.
so you might as well use the heavier boolit

it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

the more i find out about shootin boolits, the more it contradicts everything i ever learned about shooting jaxketed.

To get good performance from cast loads from your .30-'06 for hunting you want to have a bullet as heavy as you can stabilize, with as blunt a shape with large meplat as will feed. I have not had good success with roundnosed bullets, and would rather have a soft bullet with a big flat nose at .32-40 blackpowder velocities which will expand and stay together than a harder, streamlined bullet which zips through game with little disturbance.

To get reliable expansion with good weight retention, without the bullet fragmenting and breaking up, you want to limit bullet hardness to about 14 BHN. But if you use a large flatnosed design in which the meplat in a .30 cal. is at least 0.25", then you can use a harder, heat treated bullet which will stand full velocity and it will have good killing power.

This is the bullet I use in my .30-30 Winchester at ballistics approximating the .32-40 Winchester, which is a reliable deer killer at woods ranges.Name: 30-180RCBSModified175PlainbaseCupPoint2.jpg<br />Views: 131<br />Size: 66.7 KB

A bullet of this shape with a gaschecked base, with suitable alloy and lubrication can be driven to about 2000 fps, and would be effective on deer to about 150 yards, with results similar to .30-30 factory loads. A heavier 220-gr. bullet of this general shape would approximate .30-40 Krag energy levels and would be better for larger animals over 100kg.

Right from the horse's mouth. I also like the heaviest projectile I can put out in a .30 bore. I have pushed 180 gr. up to 2450 with good accuracy (1.5" @100 yards). If my rifle would shoot a 200-220 gr., that is where I would go. Of course I have things in the front yard that can eat me, so that colors my opinion on heavy boolits.
The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!

I'm pushing the lee 170 gn at 2400 fps. I don't really think its necessary to go that hot, but its working for me. I'm getting 1.5'' groups @100 yds.
Griz44mag is offline Boolit Master Join DateMay 2012LocationRepublic of Texas, District of Round Rock.Posts301
Pressure vs hardness. Reference Lee Second Edition cast bullet hardness table. Gas checking will allow ~+10,000 psi to that tables numbers without any leading.
Go as heavy as you can without loosing accuracy at the range you will be shooting.
I am taking my 143gr 308 cast to 2100fps and getting excellent accuracy and 169gr to 2000fps with excellent results.
I am also a big fan of the flat nose for hunting. It's like using a sledge hammer on them.
Griz44Mag
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Hi Matt, Welcome to CastBoolits.

Velocity isn't necessarily your friend, trying for a bit of extra fps can be counter productive for both accuracy and killing power. You didn't say what you'll be hunting but from MO I'll assume deer. If you use a heavy boolit with a wide flat point at around 1900 fps at reasonable ranges you'll have a bleeding hole on both sides and it doesn't get much better than that.

I don't currently load the 06 but I do the 308 and 30-30 and both do very well with air cooled WW + 2% tin at 1900 fps with 19.0 gr SR 4759 & standard primer. In the 06 a starting charge of about 21 gr SR 4759 would be a good place to start.

Rick

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mattd

When you get tired of your accuracy going south at about 1900 - 2000 fps when you're trying to push up to 2200 fps PM and I'll explain why. You can push to higher velocity with some bullet designs though but it takes doing everything just right.

If you want to hunt deer and pigs with cast in your '06 a 170 - 190 gr bullet with a FN and cast soft will be best. It will kill even quicker and better if you lightly HP it with a Forster 1/8" HP tool.

You will find that 1900 - 2000 fps with such a cast bullet is quite sufficient for deer and pigs out to 200 yards.

Larry Gibson

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Help field stripping Star model 30 pk

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Refinishing Grips

I just picked up this nice ASM brass 1851 Navy 44. I really don’t like the grips; they look too modern.
Can these grips be saved?

I want to strip the finish and get rid of the black grain color and return it to a more classic period look. I’m worried the black stain or whatever was used to bring out the grain in this manner will be difficult to remove. I don’t want to make them look worse or turn them into a muddy mess by my ignorance in wood finishing.

Thanks for any suggestions!


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Case length for AR

I'm getting ready to start reloading for my AR .I've never reloaded before so this is all new to me . Still waiting on back ordered bullets and powder . I have a couple thousand rounds of brass and started cleaning , sizing and swaging the primer pockets .

I have read and or was told that if I'm going to crimp I will want all my cases to be the same length . I believe this is so each crimp will be consistent to the next . I bought the lee manual case cutting tool for 223 . It cuts them very well and very consistent . the problem if there is one is it cuts them to 1.745 and my reloading book says cut the case to 1.750 . Is the cutter cutting the cases to small or will that length be fine . I have about 500 cases cleaned and sized . I stopped at 500 cus I'm not even sure if all of those are done correctly . I did the work per the instructions I'm assuming there fine . Just don't want to ruin all 2k all at once before I even reload one .

Anyways I started cutting them to length and stopped at about 20 cus they all are .005 less the what the Hornady book recommends . Is the 1.750 just a recommendation or is it the minimum length I should go .

Last edited by Metal god; Today at 12:46 AM.

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Saturday, July 27, 2013

$35 for a 160 lumen CREE G3 LED flashlight from Gun Shack

Gun Shack is proud to present the third in our line of flashlights. Meet the G3, the big brother to the P2 and G2 previously offered. This light offers big money features at an affordable cost. The unit features dual power source capability (either 3 AAA or 2 CR123), three light modes, and a removable pocket clip. The three mode light operation features high, low, and strobe. The low beam has been optimized for close range use to minimize disruption to your night vision. Once turned on, the user can toggle between the high, low, and strobe functions with a quick tap of the on/off button. After turning the light off for 1 second, it will revert back to high the next time it is turned on, regardless what the previous mode was. Each light is packaged with two tail-caps, one tactile click push button, and one coiled remote pressure switch. The remote pressure switch is perfect for use on rifles and shotguns and mounting your G3 to a weaver rail is easy. The 1" body construction allows the use of any 1" scope ring (not included). All assembly points feature o-ring construction and make your G3 water resistant.

Output: 160 Lumen (CR123) or 140 Lumen (AAA)
LED: CREE XR-E
LED Life: 50,000 hours
Battery Life: 2 hr (CR123) or 1 hr (AAA)
Modes: 3 (High, Low, Strobe)
Length: 5.5" (AAA) or 6" (CR123)

Read More...


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Boolits growing

I had something strange happen and it has never happened before. I loaded up some 44-40 today and they wouldn't chamber. I tried everything and couldn't make them work. They had been casted and sized for a couple of months. I took one out of the box and it meAsured .432 as did all of them. I ran one through my .429 sizer and checked it and it was .429. It was the same sizing die as I used the first time.

I have never had my boolits grow before in over 35 years of casting. The alloy was my standard 50/50 of WW and pure. This is the craziest thin that has ever happened to me excluding my first visit from the tinsel farry.

Best wishes

Joe


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Micro Groove and 425gr.

I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once . . . . .

RJ

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star super b compensator

Anybody know where i can find a compensator for a star super b in 9mm?

Thanks

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Impact of vertical play in 1911 slide to frame fit

I'm about 300 rounds into my latest Springfield Loaded. It was very tight at the beginning but had a somewhat rough slide/frame interface. At 300 rounds it has smoothed out but I have noticed it now has vertical slide to frame play. There is no lateral movement but the vertical movement is enough to push excess lubricant out when I push down on the slide. I should also note this movement is only evident at the rear of the slide. It's not noticeable at the front or middle of the slide when you push down on the slide. I have experienced varying degrees of lateral movement in 1911's but never vertical.

I know slide to frame fit isn't the boogie man of 1911 accuracy but it seems like most of the time people are talking lateral and rarely vertical movement. With the barrel lockup being impacted by the barrel link does vertical play preset more of a problem?


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HP38 and Winchester 231

My understanding is Hodgdon makes the powder and it is sold by Winchester. So HP-38 and Winchester W231 are one in the same. I don't recall which company developed the powder in the first place. I believe it was originally designed to work with .38 loads. Exactly opposite. Winchester, who owned Olin, developed W-231, but sold it in bulk to Hodgdon who packaged it as HP-38. Hodgdon does not make ANY powder. It simply distributes powder, made by other companies. Now they own the former Olin plant called St. Marks. They also own rights to the former Dupont IMR powder company, and distribute those powders as well.

Here's a list of those powders that have always been the same;

W-296 = H-110
W-231 = HP-38
W-540 = HS-6
W-571 = HS-7

There's others, I can't remember, somebody will be along to fill in the gaps.

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Friday, July 26, 2013

.460 rowland custom gun

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lapua brass 7.62x39 !? why so costly..

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i shoot winchester brass and wonder why some regard Lapua brass so highly , is it really that good , last i saw on swapping and selling it was 125.00$ for only 200 new brass thats over 50c each , am i cheap or what ??.... somebody straighten me out , and oh yeah norma brass too ........ what up ..
Lapua is probably the best brass on the market, but being made in Finland, it's pricey. Same thing can be said for Norma brass made in Sweden. Unless you demand match grade accuracy, you should use something else. When looking to shrink group sizes in my 6.5x55 for hunter class benchrest shooting, going to Lapua brass cut group sizes in half...but for normal 7.62x39 plinking? ...overpriced overkill
Last edited by muskeg13; Today at 12:34 AM. Reason: completeness
Have you checked new Winchester 7.62x39 brass? I had to trim all of the new WW 7.62x39s because the mouths were visibly out of square. My CZ-527 had numerous misfires with new WW cases, but none with Lapua or fired and resized WW cases. It seems that their shoulder is set back too far, so caused ignition problems in my rifle (and other CZ-527s as well).

For an SKS or AK, I doubt you would notice.

Seems like all the brass in that cal is very pricy in these times.
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Advice needed with ingot mold

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paulsnapp is offline Boolit Mold Join DateMay 2013Posts6

Yesterday was my first attempt at boolit casting. I have watched many videos and read a great deal on this forum as well as others. I am glad to say most everything went well. All of my equipment (pot, ingot molds, bullet mold) is RCBS. The alloy I am using is RotoMetals #2 Lyman. I am also using an Auber PID controller to control my pot temperature. The only real problem I have is getting ingots to drop out of the RCBS ingot molds. The first ingots were from a pot temp of 675F and the second ingots were from a pot temp of 725F. Both began with cleaned ingots that had been sitting on a 900watt hot plate with the setting on high. I did not know how long to wait after pouring into the ingots before I tried to drop them. The very first ones did not drop at 10 minutes so I tried every 10 minutes to see if cooling would help. It didn't. I finally had to pry them out with a screwdriver. After that I would let them cool for about 5 minutes and then turned the molds upside down and banged them really hard on the damp towel I had on the table. It took a lot of hard banging to get them to drop out. Maybe this is normal, but if not, I would appreciate some advice.

I also tried to mold a few boolits from my RCBS .44-40 cowboy mold. This went pretty well. I began at 675F but had wrinkled boolits. I walked this temperature up 10F at a time until the wrinkles went away at 725F and boolits are shiny. Just wondering if this is a normal temperature for the RotoMetals Lyman #2 alloy?

I've used my Lyman cast iron ingot mold for decades and they just drop right out after they solidify. It's been too long for me to remember what happened when all my stuff was as new as yours.

Is your RCBS ingot mold cast iron? I also use el-cheapo non stick muffin pans from my local X-Mart store. They just drop out of those too. Some muffin pans have the muffin cups crimped in; I've had ingots stick in them. Maybe because they were just too-cheap uncoated Aluminum.

Ingot molds are the only thing I'll use a release agent on since precision is not a goal.

Your temp sounds about right to me. When I started casting, thermometers and electronic gizmos were pretty much unheard of. I learned to judge temps by feel and outcome and that's how I do it still. The artsy-fartsy part of the process to me.

Last edited by ku4hx; Today at 03:23 AM.
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.", old Chinese proverb.
paulsnapp is offline Boolit Mold Join DateMay 2013Posts6
Yes, the RCBS ingot mold is cast iron.
JSH is offline Boolit Master Join DateApr 2005LocationKansas US of APosts831
Sounds to me like the alloy was "tinning" to the ingot molds. Yes nice and bright and clean is nice. But not in this case. It will make the lead stick to the mold.
I know what you are thinking. This guy is a nut. Boolits drop out of my boolit mold. Yeah the mold is round too. The ingot mold is square and you have 5 flat areas of contact.
Get a candle or acetylene torch and put a good coating of soot all over your ingot mold. They should drop right out in just a few minutes.
Jeff
I have 1/2 a dozen different brand ingot molds, including the Lee aluminum [use different brands to identify the different leads/alloy's] but always have a large plank or block of wood to thump them on to get the ingots' out.........some stick at times, most just fall out.
"Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too."
Why are you heating up your ingot molds? That don't make sense, unless you are wanting a perfect ingot like you would trying to make a boolit.
Ingot molds don't need heated up. Just pour your lead in, solidify, dump. Repeat
I season my cast iron ingot molds just like cooking with them.. when new wipe cooking oil on them , put in oven and heat at 300 for about 20 minutes .. after that ingots just fall right out .. no banging at all
I just let mine rust. Not to the point of flaking but a good coating. No sticking ever.
Gtek is online now Boolit Master Join DateJan 2010LocationSpace Coast, FLPosts603
I would first confirm that there are no high areas in ingot mold. I polished the inside of my aluminum Lyman's and they fall out. I also have a 1" aluminum plate I pour and flop on, big heat sink. I have small fan set up to blow stink off top of pot and breeze ingot plate on backside. The cast iron will take longer to cool. The 700 temp is what I shoot for. Gtek
I do that is while the lead is still a little soft it helps to make 'em flat and stack better.I used to do that too. Now days I just dump 'em on the garage concrete floor and when they've cooled pitch 'em into one of several 5 gallon buckets. Buckets that're already in the storage location under the casting bench.
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.", old Chinese proverb.
I have the RCBS CI molds also. Along with Lee aluminum ones. Never a problem from cast ONE.

If you have this problem, use a release agent. Mica powder is excellent for this. Just dust the inside with a bit before and during the session and all your ingots will drop right out. You can even use the colored mica powders sold at craft stores for painting purposes. The powder goes a long way.

Have not tried graphite which is available everywhere. Pretty messy but should work a;so.

I season my cast iron ingot molds just like cooking with them.. when new wipe cooking oil on them , put in oven and heat at 300 for about 20 minutes .. after that ingots just fall right out .. no banging at allI bought my cast iron ingots molds (Lyman and Saeco) used. someone seasoned them for me...by letting them get rusty...rust is a great release agent
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I will be offering the GC seater plate for the lyman 45.
Also I have replacement springs for the Lyman 45 lubesizer, If your's is weak or missing, let me know
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.45ACP leading, can't find the sweet spot...

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I'm still trying to get rid of the leading with my .45ACP loads for my 1911. I'm using 200gr Lee SWC (tumble lube style bullet) cast from air cooled clip-on WW. They measure (with a micrometer) to .453" and my bore slugs at .451". I've made double sure that my cases are expanded enough and aren't shaving lead, and that my taper crimp die is only taking the bell off the case and I'm not using any sort of lee crimp dies. I'm loading on a Dillon square deal.

First I was tumble lubing the bullets, and water dropping them, and loading them over 4.2gr Bullseye. That was leading the grooves in the first inch of the barrel after the chamber, pretty heavily, after just 21 rounds fired. I learned that there's no good reason to water drop bullets (to about 18BHN) for .45ACP because bullets around BHN9 are about ideal for 13,000psi chamber pressure.

So I cast some and air cooled them (I figure they should be about 12BHN?) because I don't have any pure lead to alloy down to anything softer.

I loaded up more, but this time with 4.5gr Bullseye, and they leaded a little less but still pretty bad, and right after the chamber again.

So I figured maybe the Lee liquid Alox is just not cutting it, and I pan lubed them with some home made beeswax/vaseline (50/50 mix) lube. With the same 4.5gr Bullseye load they leaded only very slightly less.

So I read that a bunch of people run 5.0gr Bullseye behind a 200gr SWC bullet cast from WW for IPDA, and that it didn't lead (no mention of lube type though). So I loaded up some of these but rather than pan lubing again I just tumble lubed them. After 21 shots the whole bore was leaded worse than I've ever seen, even on the top of the rifling lands. Is this just a flat out lube failure of the liquid alox?

So any ideas on where to go from here? Is the Lee liquid alox insufficient and the beeswax/vaseline lube I mixed also inadequate? Should I try another lube? I have HP-38 powder, would switching to that do any good? Is my alloy still too hard for .45ACP?

I can't imagine it being a bullet size issue, I'm already .002" over groove diameter and I've checked pulled bullets and they are not being sized down during loading and they drop into the chamber easily.

Still haven't figured out the leading problem with my .40S&W either, although I was hoping .45ACP would be easier to solve since it's supposed to be an "easy" cast bullet cartridge to load.

Pitchnit is offline Boolit Man Join DateJan 2012LocationNE OHIOPosts87
I was having the same issues. Went back to .452 per several members suggestions. Try setting you aol to just see the rifling engraving the shoulder of the bullet after chambering a round. Im running 1.255 with my Lee 200 LSWC. I seat so that when I drop a round in the barrel the round is .005-.010 proud of the back of the barrel.
.45ACP is an easy cartridge to cast and load for.

Just exploring ideas.
As a curiosity, how large a boolit can you seat and still drop test it into your chamber. Anything over .452 won't chamber fully on my Kimber, even when pressing with my thumb.
If you have an exceptionally large chamber, perhaps the boolits aren't aligned with the center of the bore and are skidding on firing.

Do your boolits measure .453 in both directions (on the part line and 90 degrees from the part line)? What do you measure, (the base band, the front driving band, the middle tumble lube area)?

Instead of tumble lubing with straight Alox, try the 45-45-10 lube that Recluse came up with. Many have used it with success when they have failed with Alox.

OK, reaching way out to left field. Could there be copper fouling in the beginning of the barrel that is galling the lead to cause the leading? Might point back to an over-sized chamber and my first point.

Add 2 % tin to your WW alloy (3.2 oz to 10 lbs WW alloy) and AC the bullets 7-10 days before use. Get a Lee .451 or .452 sizer. After the bullets age harden the 7 - 10 days as per the Lee directions TL well and let dry over night (24 hours). Size in the Lee ,451 or .452. Then TL again and let dry at least 24 hours. Load over 5 gr Bullseye.

Larry Gibson

Try 5.5-5.6 gr of HP38 (same as W231) under that boolit. .452 diam should be good.

Bill

If it was easy, anybody could do it.
I think I wouldn't go quite that high with the 231.
5.0 is bout where I am usually at when I use it.
you could slow the powder down and see if that helps.
you could also pull a boolit from a loaded round and see what you are really putting in the chamber.
Dillon dies are jaxketed bullet designed.
you might just need to back a few things off.
it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

the more i find out about shootin boolits, the more it contradicts everything i ever learned about shooting jaxketed.

Some years ago I had the same leading problem in both my 1911's. My boolit fit was perfect, my boolits measures 10-12 BHN which according to the old hands here was just about right. It was also preached here that the taper crimp should be between 0.469 - 0.470, not more, on inspection I found mine to be much more, adjusted the crimping die out to the correct setting as above....and all my leading was gone in both pistols.
Just thought I would mention this here....
thumper,eh? is offline Boolit Bub Join DateApr 2010LocationTwin Cities, MNPosts28
If you are getting leading at the breech, the alloy is too hard for the application. Leading at the muzzle indicates the alloy is too soft for the application. The 45 is a very low pressure cartridge compared to .40, 9 mm, the revolver mags and such. Decades ago Speer ( and probably others ) used to sell swaged bullets for .38 target use. Velocity would be similar to .45 and they were pure lead.
I have one 1911 that is very sensitive to alloy hardness, Phillipine made ( read: cheap ). Probably needs to be fire lapped. But it works great with minimal leading if I use very soft bullets, softer than WW.
I'm not one for tumble lubing, prefer stronger lubes like LBT blue. I wouldn't bet on the tumble lubes holding up under higher pressure like the .40 S&W.
A buddy showed me a quick way to get the leading out. Wrap 0000 steel wool around an undersized brush until very snug in barrel; push it thru 6-10 times and you are good to go. On the cheap barrels it cleans out the crud quick and I'm not worried about wear / damage. Better barrels and fire lapped barrels won't have this problem assuming the lube holds up.
prs is online now Boolit Master Join DateJun 2008Posts750
The front shoulder of the front drive band may be "snagging" on the abrupt end of the chamber if the leade into the rifling is also abrupt.

prs

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Marlin 80-DL

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Which Handgun

Cheap, good compromise between SD and trail??

I like the S&W 13, 19, 65, 66, 38/357mag in a 4" barrel

Or, Charter Arms 5 shot 2.5" barrel 44 special

Both would be my choices. I might have to restart my Charter Arms search!


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Thursday, July 25, 2013

Just trying to help....

I frequently browse Armslist for gun stuff in my state, and I ran across a "private sale" listing where the seller had two revolvers for sale, but lived in another state and comes to Virginia every week or so. I replied to his ad and told him that it might be illegal to do a private sale of handguns in Virginia, in case he didn't know he could be committing a felony. Really, I was only trying to keep him from trouble. He replied that he is a dealer. I replied that he would have to do NICs check then, and that might annoy those interested in a private sale, as was advertised. Boy did he then proceed to rip into me, name calling and such. He had other guns for sale in his home state, and they were listed as dealer sales. So, should I have just kept my mouth shut? __________________
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Bullet Lube

I just wipe mine off. That "residue" will eventually gum up the chamber and make the cases hard to chamber or extract. I use plain old rubbing alcohol on a rag.

RJ

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UN small arms treaty

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Shot my first reloads. Ejector marks.

Shot my first reloads. Ejector marks. Pretty much a success. I found a few loads I might start to make. Overall good day.

My question is I am using Federal brass that came with their Match .308 ammo. I started to get some ejector marks on some of my loads near maximum. Primers look fine, not cratered or leaking. Am I in the safe zone? The ejector marks are just visible, I can't feel them.

And can I reuse the brass if it has these marks?


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40 gr Nosler bullet ?

histed is right. Don't use that little bullet on deer. If you absolutely have to shoot a deer with a 223, I'd limit the bullet choices to the 60 gr Nosler Partition, the 65 gr Sierra GK, or one of the Barnes TSX bullets (the largest that will stabilize in your rifle).

Immediately following this comment by me will likely be a dozen or more folks foaming at the mouth to tell you that you can use any number of unsuitable bullets if you hit em right in the carotid, or the eye, or the spine, or the scrotum or whatever. All I'm saying is that what I know to be workable is the Nosler Partition. That bullet will do it for ya, if you just have to shoot a deer with that caliber. But you still have to place the bullet carefully. And better to do the shooting in the morning so you'll have good light for tracking. And I'm talking from a half century of deer hunting, so this isn't theory I'm spouting.


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Setting up 9mm with cast

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whelen fan is online now Boolit Mold Join DateMar 2013Posts16

I bought a lee 356-120tc 6 banger and am at the load development stage now. Seated to 1.096 loading 5 bullets each with 3.6, 3.7, 3.8, 3.9 and 4.0gr of VV N320. Need to make 125pf so see how it goes. Will update the thread with speeds when I chrony these loads. They weigh 125gr ready to load.

Have you tried dropping those in the chamber of your dismounted barrel? Looks like
you have a lot of full diam out of the case, very likely to hit the rifling on some barrels.

Look for them to drop freely into the chamber all the way, if you have to push more
than 1 lb something is amiss. I'd look very close for signs of rifling marks on the full
diam part of those boolits. If you don't have significant marks and they drop all the
way in, you should be good to go.

That is a really excellent design, works very well in many different 9mms in my experience.

Good luck!

Bill

If it was easy, anybody could do it.
whelen fan is online now Boolit Mold Join DateMar 2013Posts16
Yes I tried them when making dummies as well as after I made these. They drop in and slightly wobble in the chamber. The 147gr fmj NATO ammo I have has full diameter out further than my reloads and I just shot 300 of them to break in the barrel prior to starting load development.

The gun is a mp9 with the new production barrel.

Great, it must have a generous throat, which is good for reliability, sometimes it
can hurt accuracy a bit.

Bill

If it was easy, anybody could do it.
I recently developed loads for my Shield using that same Lee boolit. No way would the cartridges in your photo run in my pistol. The longest loa that functioned in mine was 1.056". Are you sure they are fully chambered? Is the case head even with the barrel hood or less? And do they drop in the chamber with a nice, solid "plunk"? Did they function out of the mag and the slide close completely? Sorry if my questions seem elementary, but I just can't see how your loa can work. If the answers are yes to my questions, you must have a very, very long chamber.
If these are the single lube groove bullets then it looks like you barely buried the lube groove.

My Beretta would likely swallow them that long with no issue at all. My CZ's tend to have shorter chambers and I'd likely need to put the shoulder back a touch farther. Although the 1.09 that you set the OAL to is about what I use with the round nose bullets. But they are already tapering in by the point where your TC's have the shoulder.

Witty saying to be plagarized shortly.....
whelen fan is online now Boolit Mold Join DateMar 2013Posts16
Well, just to make sure I'm not crazy. Here is a 147gr nato on the left and a 115gr factory on the right. Both have full diameter further out than my cast and as far as I know both should work in any 9.

My reloads fall in with a thunk, flush with barrel hood, cycle from mag, eject and no change in oal.

If the two rnds beside yours run in your pistol, it looks like your load should run fine. I'm sure none of the three would run in mine. Shows that 9mm chambers vary greatly.
I load that exact boolit to a cartridge OAL of 1.075" with a neck right at spec - .380". Works well in all my various 9mm barrels and is a fine performer.
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.", old Chinese proverb.
6bg6ga is offline Boolit Master Join DateNov 2010Posts742
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Picture of 125gr round nose cast on left and a factory 148gr round nose on right. The factory measures 1.160 and the 125gr measures 1.110 The 125 RN is loaded with 4.0 grains of unique. It chambers in anything I try it in. The 125 is sized to .357 and the slight bulge is normal for reloaded cases. It shoots accurately with no leading in anything I try it in.

The picture looks kind of funky with the way the light hits it and there is no dent in the case.

whelen fan is online now Boolit Mold Join DateMar 2013Posts16
If the two rnds beside yours run in your pistol, it looks like your load should run fine. I'm sure none of the three would run in mine. Shows that 9mm chambers vary greatly.I haven't hear of factory/saami ammo not working in factory barrels. That would defeat the purpose of loading them to spec wouldn't it?
If the two rnds beside yours run in your pistol, it looks like your load should run fine. I'm sure none of the three would run in mine. Shows that 9mm chambers vary greatly.Tolerance stacking goes both ways: toward looseness and toward tightness. Indeed, some guns are picky for sure, but if truly "to-spec" ammunition will not chamber and run in a given gun, I'd suspect that gun's chamber is out of spec on the small side.
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.", old Chinese proverb.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading
Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt"


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