Just saw that Grafs has cases of 12,000 Fiocchi small pistol primers in stock for $284.99. Picked up a case for myself and thought I would pass along the information to my fellow boolit casters.You may not post new threadsYou may not post repliesYou may not post attachmentsYou may not edit your postsForum Rules
Abbreviations used in Reloading
Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt"
Add in 4-6" of 1/8" - 95/5 solder to your full pot. Sometimes the added tin to WW will help out not only with mold fill out but with the sizes as well.
Just doing a brief look see at some referenced material, I thought I had noted a general guide to heat verses size. Well I know I read it somewhere but I can't find it now that I want too. Go figure. However, I did read the following though on this link,
Cast Bullet Notes
\ABS\Auto Blog Samurai\data\Casting Boolits\thefiringline\biggrin.gif "Big Grin")
The jest of it remains the same though, you might give the following a try.
Set aside say 20 or so randomly picked out of the bunch, maybe pull some of the AC and WC and keep them separated. Let them sit for a week, then measure them again. Then let them sit for another week and remeasure.
They are going to grow some, but how much is often simply a guess. I have found that sizing some of my bullets within two weeks works great, some not so good, just depends on the alloy.
As a rule, now I usually just pour up pot full, let them cool, and box them up until i need them. This way IF they are going to grow, which they usually do to some extent, they have done most of it and I don't have to worry about them doing the growing AFTER I sized them.
There is a multi paged discussion or two over on Castboolits that goes into great detail on this as well. IF you look around it should be easy to find, but I cannot remember which sub forum it was in.
Give the above a try first and see where that gets you. You might try checking them after a week first, then if they are still small give adding the tin a try. Or you might pour up half a pot of straight WW alloy then add in a 2-3" piece of solder stir well and pour the other half, then compare the two after cooling and then again after a week or two.
Sometimes with straight WW the temp is what matters most, sometimes it is the mold. Sort of like saying, hey just dump in 52grs of X powder and seat to Y OAL and it will shoot little clover leaf groups. It might work great in 3 guns out of a thousand, and the fellow who said it had one of those guns.
Hope this helps.
I follow the recommendation and don't use them in 40 S&W, 357 Sig and 357 Mag of higher pressure loads.
On a couple of revolvers that had high firing pin protrusion, a few cracked in the center. To keep this from happening, I uniformed the pockets and switched to CCI primers. I don't know if the Rems would have cracked again after uniforming, but I didn't want to take a chance on eroding the tip of the firing pin.
http://www.gardall.com/area-safes-safe-under_counter.htm.htm
http://www.safeandvaultstore.com/search/search.php?keywords=H2&x=55&y=17
I can get one for $390 delivered so the price is very attractive.
Thanks
I paid $201.00 a bit over a year ago,,,
8 rounds in the mag and one in the pipe,,,
I consider it to be a very fine little rimfire shooter.
Like I said,,,
Maybe not the best,,,
But a nice handgun none the less.
Aarond
.
__________________
Boolit Master Join DateFeb 2012LocationOregonPosts198
I was all excited to see CCI small pistol primers on the shelf that I did not notice they were Magnum until I got home. I now have 2k primers I hope you guys help me figure out how to adjust my powder so I can use them.I am using 356-124tl with 4g of Unique and Recluse lube. I am shooting them out of a 1911 9mm. 4g of Unique is the lowest recommendation and I think 5g is the peak recommendation.
Can I adjust my powder so I can use these magnum primers?
Thanks
Slow
Better to be poked in the eye with a wet fish than a sharp stick
Boolit Man Join DateJun 2010LocationWNYPosts138I use mag primers almost all the time regardless of whether or not they are called for. All you have to do is back your load back 10% if you are at mid range or higher and watch for pressure signs. You're not even close so I'd just use them. FWIW, I've never gotten any pressure problems doing this and I've been loading over 40 years
I believe mag vs std primers is only a significant factor when you get near max loads. Since your already at the start load, I wouldn't worry about it. As always, work up from there. Those with more experience than I will chime in shortly...1...2...3...
I've only done it with .38's. I was in the middle of the load range so there was no issue.
I would do what NSB suggests in the above post.Shiloh
"A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves."
Bertrand de Jouvenel?Any government that does not trust its citizens with firearms is either a tyranny, or planning to become one.? ? Joseph P. Martino
?If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert , in five years there would be a shortage of sand.? ? Milton Friedman
I loaded I think 30 9mm about a month or so ago with CCI Small Pistol Magnum primers I've had since 1993. The loads were mid-range Power Pistol and their performance was no different than with the non magnum primers.I had intended to load a lot more, but an interruption stopped me at 100 rounds a week ago using that same lot of primers. I'll very likely shoot the 100 before I load any more, but my intention is to use them in 9mm and enjoy them.
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.", old Chinese proverb.
Boolit Master Join DateFeb 2012LocationOregonPosts198Sounds like I am ok with the load I am using with the magnum primers. Well looks like I can keep shooting a little longer
Better to be poked in the eye with a wet fish than a sharp stick
I load whatever I can find. Mags seem to be more redialy avaialbe these days.I use them in 9mm, 38SP, 40 S&W, and the large ones in 45LC.
As stated above....just back off your standard load ~10% for starters. My standard loads are 65-70% normally.
bangerjim
Boolit Man Join DateFeb 2012LocationOn the Left Coast of MichiganPosts91My results have been the same as bangerjim's. Go for it.
Agree with all of the comments. I've used Mag Primers for all loads with no difference although I do not load to Max with them
"Ever since I arrived to a state of manhood, I have felt a sincere passion for liberty" Ethan AllenYou may not post new threadsYou may not post repliesYou may not post attachmentsYou may not edit your postsForum Rules
Abbreviations used in Reloading
Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt"
Paid $42 out the door for 1000 Federal SP primers. Limit of 1000 per type, Rifle and pistol, per day, per customer. He had 1000 Federal primers left, but a small supply of Remington. Good selection of powder, but missing Unique, WW231. One pound ONLY per person per day. The anesthetist who told me about it, said they had a good stock of Federal primers yesterday. They are almost gone till the next shipment.He said they were doing this policy until stock became consistent. If you show up every day for several days, you are cut-off. The reason given is they want to spread supplies around. Works for me.
Shiloh
"A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves."
Bertrand de Jouvenel?Any government that does not trust its citizens with firearms is either a tyranny, or planning to become one.? ? Joseph P. Martino
?If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert , in five years there would be a shortage of sand.? ? Milton Friedman
Supplies is a good thing.
If something is worth shooting once, it's worth shooting a bunch of times.
Well it's either that or raise prices, which it looks like they already have. Yes, times are tough, going to like that for quite awhile I am afraid.
EVERY GOOD SHOOTER NEEDS TO BE A HANDLOADER.
NRA Cert. Inst. Met. Reloading & Basic Pistol
They are doing there best to spread supplies around. There are folks who would come in and buy all they had. The had CCI .22 Mini-Mags as well $10.99 per hundred. 1 box only per day. After a couple of days, you're cut off.Shiloh
"A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves."You may not post new threadsYou may not post repliesYou may not post attachmentsYou may not edit your postsForum Rules
Bertrand de Jouvenel?Any government that does not trust its citizens with firearms is either a tyranny, or planning to become one.? ? Joseph P. Martino
?If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert , in five years there would be a shortage of sand.? ? Milton Friedman
Abbreviations used in Reloading
Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt"
Boolit Mold Join DateApr 2013Posts16
So this may be a pretty basic question, but I'm a total rookie at this and seek the expertise of the group.How small can one size a boolit without ruining it?
-0.002 to -0.003? More?
I assume that products of a .358 mould can be sized down to .356, since I saw people say that they did that, but how far is too far?Explanation of question:
I am the owner of (as soon as I pick it up) a 7.35mm Carcano rifle, with a bore diameter of .299 or .300 (I forget exactly, since it has been *years* since we slugged it!), that my uncle can no longer keep. He was never able to really shoot it, since he could never find the proper ammunition (one of my best memories was giving him a couple of boxes of 7.35mm Italian-surplus military ball for Christmas one year). I plan on using the rifle, and that means I'll probably be casting boolits for it.I can easily find .309-caliber moulds, but cannot seem to find .300- or .301-cal. Should I be able to size these down that much, or do I need to look into a custom mould? (Follow up question: anyone know of sizing setups that will do .300 or .301?)
If not, I'll have to purchase "J-word" projectiles to load the cartridges.
Thank you in advance for your responses - and for helping prevent me from only ever being able to shoot "those other things" out of the rifle!
'Sifrid
I have sized .325 down to .314.
Buckshot makes nice sizers. I have a couple of his push throughs they are beautiful pieces and are dead on for the sizing I requested. 1 is in fact 301 that I size cores for paper patch for.I've read here many times that you can size a long ways down if the lube grooves are filled,it keeps them open. I have not tried to size more than .002-3 for a naked boolit myself.
"Gentlemen we MUST all hang together lest we shall most certainly hang separately" Ben FranklinIn the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.
I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992
I've sized a bunch of .459's down to .454 for 45 colt loads. No problems, although as stated, lube is paramount.
2013 Blindfolded/Nude boolit casting tournament champion.
For what it is worth, I tried sizing some .317-318 boolits down to .311 and it nearly broke my reloading bench. And the lube grooves disappeared on half the boolitAnd my attempt ended with one stuck so bad I had to drill it out. A softer alloy may have helped. I know they were plenty lubed.
I removed the beagling from my mold, the boolits went back to 312-313 and sizing worked great
Boolit Mold Join DateApr 2013Posts16So it sounds like, if I lubed first (and it sounds like I may need to use something other than liquid Alox to do that - and isn't lubing going to be a whole kettle of new fish), I *should* be okay taking a nominally .309-caliber boolit down to .300-ish?I'll have to look into Buckshot sizers - as soon as I get that rifle in my safe, anyway.
Thank you for your responses.
'Sifrid
Last edited by Blintersifrid; Today at 05:22 PM. Reason: typos
Buckshot is a member here just pm him he will get back w/a couple of paragraphs that amounts he won't make any standard production sizes and he prefers to work from actual bbl slugs it allows better accuracy for his part.
"Gentlemen we MUST all hang together lest we shall most certainly hang separately" Ben FranklinIn the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.
I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992
Boolit Bub Join DateMar 2013Posts35I have sized Jacketed from .311 to .308 with no issues, actually came out extremely accurate.
Also have sized from .359 to .356 with no issues using WDWW that tested at 19BHN. Have even sized out of round 50bmg API rounds.
I always used the Lee push thru with no issues, plus they are cheap (comparatively)
I have taken 358-429 boolits down to .351 to use as plinkers in my Winchester 71. That's about .3595 as cast down to .351. Choose a design with deep grease grooves and lube with a conventional, as opposed to liquid, lube. You can pan lube if you like, rather than buy a lubrisizer, because you will want to use a Lee-type push through sizer die. It puts too much strain on the Lubrisizer to try it that way. I lube mine in a .357 die in a conventional sizer, then tumble lube, then push-size down to .351. I made my own Lee .351 sizer die by ordering a .338 sizer die and a 9mm push rod, then polishing out the die and sanding down the push rod until I got what I wanted. I think you could do the same with a 7mm die and a 30 cal push rod.
_________________________________________________It's not that I can't spell: it is that I can't type.You may not post new threadsYou may not post repliesYou may not post attachmentsYou may not edit your postsForum Rules
Abbreviations used in Reloading
Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt"
regardless, I suspect the Sig 938 is something the OP might look at based on the question..
__________________Yes, but there will be a learning curve to overcome.
I have done it on a 7X14 lathe, but it took more than 2 tries to get it right.
I have a bench top mill in my shop, so that helps.Lafaun
So over the weekend I fired 50 of the old rounds with small pistol primers, and had no issues. I then fired 50 rounds that had the magnum small pistol primers and had about 3 misfires. The gun was a GP100 that's never misfired before. I previously used CCI small pistol primers (#500), and on this batch started using the CCI magnum small pistol primers (#550).
It's not a huge thing, and the rounds fired on a second try, but I HATE hearing a click when expecting a bang. The only thing I can figure is that the 550's are harder than the 500's. Is it possible that the 550's are harder?
Boolit Mold Join DateMar 2013Posts1
I've been a long term stalker of these parts, but have not had to post for information up to this point. I usually load up 12ga shells with .678 round balls, and think that I have a pretty good system going. The other day, my buddy found a big 'ol bucket of round balls and sent them my way. They are assorted size, but they all seem to be in the area of .53. I don't want these to go to waste, so I was thinking of loading them into 12ga shells, seeing as the only two guns I own are a 12 gauge and a 22 (that's all I've ever needed on my farm). I would like to bounce around some ideas about what may be the best way to accomplish this, while still maintaining reasonable accuracy. If I just threw in a gas seal and some wadding with the ball in it, I don't think I would observe very good accuracy. Can anyone suggest any wads that might hold this size projectile well for a 12 gauge? Would I be best off trying to attach the ball to the wadding via a screw or some glue? Or would it make more sense to try filling the space between the wadding and the ball? I also don't know where to find data for this kind of scenario or how much powder to use. For a projectile this much smaller than the bore of my gun, is it safe to just start trying things (within reason)?Thanks for the help, y'all.
be better off getting a mold and casting them the right size
If I had that problem I wouldn't tell anyone. LOL
My first thought would be to paper wrap the small balls to where they fit into the wad and then adjust the height with corn meal filler. My concern would be the amount of wraps it would take to make it fit. Something that thick would not come off the ball well and would disrupt the flight path.I've been playing with pressing paper pulp to make a single piece wad for .690 balls. If you made a wad/filler that centered the ball the wad might fall away leaving the ball to fly true. maybe try to make some sort of 'round ball sabot' to launch them. Who knows
"A person cannot exercise their right to speak freely if they have been stripped of their ability to defend themselves and repel those forces who would seek to quell their speech." Me
FarmerRando:You may not post new threadsYou may not post repliesYou may not post attachmentsYou may not edit your postsForum Rules
Welcome to the CastBoolits.
As wgr stated, you will be a lot further ahead to get a mould of the proper size and cast. What you are suggesting, is far too much effort and time. You could sell or swap the balls you have. Someone will surly want the lead, or that size ball for something.
Where are you located? Put them on the Swappin and Sellin site.
Reguards
Jack
Abbreviations used in Reloading
Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt"
I am new to the forum, casting and reloading. My first reloader and manual is to be hopefully delivered today. But the question I posed came from a conversation I had with my brother-in-law this morning at his recently opened (6-8 mo ago) small town gun/boot store. I stopped by for a minute at his store and asked about business. I asked what was selling well and what was just taking up realestate. He was able to identify several displays of items that had not done much. I talked with him about my new hobby and asked if he'd considered selling reloading supplys. He indicated that he'd had a number of requests for reloading supplys and wouldn't mind carrying some if he knew what to carry. He shared with me that a customer had come in looking for a specific powder and asked him to special order a pound of it for him. He did and the powder + shipping was close to $50..... the customer did not prepay and um, has not yet come to pick up his powder. We also talked about how if he was ordering bulk he could spread that hazmat cost over several items and still be very competitive with online dealers maybe.Locally our biggest game is the white tail deer and wild hogs (usually 150-300lbs). Most common calibers I see around camp are 30-06, 270, 30-30. ARs have become very popular over the past few years for target shooting but I've not seen one in deer camp. Most common shotgun is the 12 ga for rabbit, squirrel, duck. Most common pistol calibers I see are : 9mm, 45 auto, 357 mag, 38 special, 40 cal probably in that order. I of course see tons of 22lr in pistols/rifles, the odd 32 auto to 45 long colt plinker, the 243 to 444 deer hunter, 7.62x39 to 308 hog hunter and 20/16/410 squirrel hunter but I would estimate that the above mentioned bolded cal/ga represent 80+ % of what I actually see people shoot in East Texas.
So, what would you see as the essentials for reloading supplys? What dies for what calibers. What powders for the most common loads. What primers for the most common usages. What molds, ladles, brass, reloader kits, manuals would have the broadest appeal. So, what would you put in a 12' wide x 8' tall retail space? What might bring the best bang for his investment, what would turn over most often?
1. Pistol powder (brand, name, applications)
2. Rifle powder (brand, name, applications)
3. Pistol primers (brand, name, applications)
4. Rifle primers (brand, name, applications)
5. Dies -
6. Molds -
7. Reloaders/kits -
8. Brass -
9. Reloading/Casting Manual -
10. Bullets -
11. Other essentials -
Here is a picture of a PB HP that was improved by Erik Ohlen. The work is outstanding and the bullets drop no problem. I purchased the mold from him with inset bar conversion. Later on I returned it to him and he removed the GC shank and up'd the band width to .3115 as requested. I was shooting the new boolits within a month, he was a easy person to deal with in all matters. The boolits group less than an inch at 75 yards over 7grs. AP100 (SR4756 equiv.). They are 117 grains lubed the one in the picture has doubled in diameter and weighs 116grs. without lube. It was recovered from a water jug. They are cast soft enough to bump out the occasional irregular nose like the cool one seen at the edge of the picture. I will use his expertise again.
Boolit Mold Join DateMay 2010Posts18
I've been unable to find any small pistol primers anywhere due to the panic and everybody buying up all the stock. I do have some small magnum primers and am thinking of using these for 9 mm. Should I start with a reduced powder load or use the recommended starting load for any given powder?
I loaded up some 9MM and 38 spl with magnums. I think that the 38's were actually more acurate with 4.3 grns of Unique. Unfortunately the SR9 would not toach off the primers for some reason, so I don't know how they work in that gun. BTW, SR9 went back to Ruger yesterday.As for your question I would start low (at least 10% below max) and work up with your particular firearm as you should do with any new load.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Recommended starting load should be safe with the magnum primers. Usually it's well under ten percent of the maximum.Winelover
Recommended starting load should be safe with the magnum primers. Usually it's well under ten percent of the maximum.Winelover
It seems that the online data provided by the manufacturers of powder appear to be max loads. If this is wrong please correct me. I have been treating this info as max loads.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Boolit Bub Join DateFeb 2013Posts39I loaded up some 9MM and 38 spl with magnums. I think that the 38's were actually more acurate with 4.3 grns of Unique. Unfortunately the SR9 would not toach off the primers for some reason, so I don't know how they work in that gun. BTW, SR9 went back to Ruger yesterday.As for your question I would start low (at least 10% below max) and work up with your particular firearm as you should do with any new load.
Your now the 4th person this month to send back a gun to Ruger that I know of... (other 3 are real life buddies). Hmm seems their QC is lacking.
But to the OP you should be okay at starting load. If your a bit nervous, back it down an additonal 10% and see where that puts you.
It seems that the online data provided by the manufacturers of powder appear to be max loads. If this is wrong please correct me. I have been treating this info as max loads.When a manufacturer only lists one powder charge (not a min.-max.) it is usually the "do not exceed" load. Common practice amoung reloaders is to reduce the listed load by 10% and continue from there, if the charge is insuffecient/inaccurate.
Boolit Mold Join DateAug 2012Posts9I have loaded my normal load of 4.5 grains of unique under a 125 gr cast booklet with small pistol magnum primers with no problem in a taurus pt92 and sig sp2009
It seems that the online data provided by the manufacturers of powder appear to be max loads. If this is wrong please correct me. I have been treating this info as max loads.That might be the case but I get my data the old fashioned way---------out of reloading manuals that provide starting loads.Winelover
That might be the case but I get my data the old fashioned way---------out of reloading manuals that provide starting loads.Winelover
My problem is I haven't bought a new loading manuel since I started reloading. I use the online stuff just to make sure I am not over doing it with powders that the formula might have changed slightly.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
I used magnum primers with 4.6 gr of unique in my 9mm with excellent results. My question??? Has anyone ever used small rifle in a small pistol? I know rifle powders differ from pistol powders but are they different? Just wonderingYou may not post new threadsYou may not post repliesYou may not post attachmentsYou may not edit your postsForum Rules
Abbreviations used in Reloading
Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt"
De Oppresso LiberIrag: 91,03,04,05,06,08 & 09'
Afghanistan: 09,10, & 11'
Nice Pictures. Enjoy the hunt post more pic's.
As I was told when I was a child; your elders will make you smarter if you listen. Then when you are older your edlers will teach you WISDOM.
300winmag
Nice pics, thanks for sharing. Hope you get a shot or two tomorow.
Life Member NRA, TSRA
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of used wheelweights.
Great pictures!!!! Really like the Eagle shot as well as the revolver.You may not post new threadsYou may not post repliesYou may not post attachmentsYou may not edit your postsForum Rules
Abbreviations used in Reloading
Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt"
I've spent part of the afternoon playing with an old Lyman 429348, 2 cav. mold.Casts real nice, very low percentage of rejects, I could get to like it.
I keep hearing guys say that their new Lyman molds drop small. It isn't just the new ones! This one is dropping .4275-.4282" boolits. They sorta/kinda drag going through a .429 sizer. One would think they were tumble lubed as the outside surface of the driving bands has a thin film of 50-50 over most of the area. The front band seems a bit smaller and there is lube squeezing by that pretty uniformly.
I was hoping to run these in some fairly mild loads in my 3" Bulldog, time will tell if they shoot or not. Alloy is fairly hard, 12 BHN range scrap with about 12-1 Linotype added. That's purely a guess, I add metal in 5 lb ingots and try to put the same size handful of Lino in with each one. Casts real nice and doesn't thumbnail nick much so it should work fine, if the size doesn't cause an issue.
I might try beagling it but I'm a bit confused about that process. Doesn't it make for oval boolits? You're adding with perpendicular to the mold line but with it. My mind says that's going to make the boolit oval. Does the extra metal get squooshed back round in the sizer?
I'll be putting some of these down the tube Thursday at the latest, I'm range officer on the indoor range that evening. If I go up to the club before that I'll take the shooter and some loads and try it then. Plan is for somewhere in the 750-800 fps range, maybe even less if the puny puppy seems unruly in the least.
My daughter is coming around to thinking she would feel more comfortable with a carry gun and this one is the most likely candidate. She is not tolerant of recoil much at all so that may be a problem. I have three relatively light boolit designs to choose from, this Lyman 180, a Lee 214 SWC and a Saeco (#430, IIRC) at around 225 gr RF. Hopefully I can get one of those to shoot to the sights at a low enough recoil level that she won't be afraid to shoot it enough to get good with it.
The only other gun options are my 1911 or 4" Security Six, neither of which are ideal as a handbag gun. Granted the Bulldog isn't ideal either but neither one of us can afford a J-frame or an LCR.
I had bought a Lyman 429348 with the thought of its use in pocket revolvers you are considering. I have not cast with it yet. Working for a living keeps getting in the way, but at least I'm still eating from the fruits of my own labor and no government handout. If this bullet, which seems to be made for just this purpose, give you trouble, first try casting from a real soft alloy with the hope of bullet base upset from a fast burning powder. Past that, I would plan on lapping the mold to get a larger drop. Time consuming, but worth it.
Alloy is fairly hard, 12 BHN range scrap with about 12-1 Linotype added.I'm betting your problem is the alloy; range lead, if of a large quanity of commercial cast and jacketed cores, will have a high antimony content. You then exhasperated the problem by adding linotype which also has a high % of antimony. I'm assuming you added the lino for the tin content but your alloys still has too much antimony and that is causing the thealloy not to fill out in the mould.
I suggest you take the range lead and simply add 2-3 % tin (pure tin or from 50/50 solder). The tin will balance out the antimony already in the range lead and make it go better into solution with the lead. You will end up with a much better ternary alloy that will cast to at least nominal diameter.
Your Lyman mould is made to cast to .429 at least with Lyman's #2 alloy which has a good balance of lead/tin/antimony. If it does not cast to nominal diameter with another alloy, especially one very high in antimony, then it should be considered the fault of the Lyman mould, in my opinion anyway.
I also have a standing offer regards any Lyman mould not casting to nominal diameter. I have posted that offer recently on another thread. if you'd care to take me up on it PM me.
Larry Gibson
Larry is right, forget the lino and add no more than 3% Sn. Cast with no hotter than 725 degrees pot temp with a properly pre-heated mold. Cast at a pace where the boolits just start to frost and Alan and his Lyman mold should be happy campers.Rick
"The people never give up their freedom . . . Except under some delusion." Edmund Burke"Let us remember that if we suffer tamely a lawless attack on our liberty, we encourage it." Samuel Adams
One side is for Liberty and the Constitution and they are called domestic terrorist, anti-American, nazi's and mobsters. Just what is the side using these terms for?
NRA Benefactor Life Member
CRPA Life Member
Everyone loves nice round full sized boolits that drop from their molds but as many have posted most newer molds are no where near as good of quality as the ones form 30 years or longer ago. Yes the alloy content and temperature has a major effect and finished / sized to dia. is a big determining effect as to degree of leading along with powder burn rate,velocity (pressure) bore condition etc., however simple fact is that most self densense shooting are at 20 feet or less and consiste of less than five rounds fired. It takes a gush awful leading problem to have any real effect in these situations.If the cast leads are going to be the carry rounds then going soft and tolerating some leading during practice sessions is not really all that big of a deal IMO. Often one uses hard alloy boolits driven at near max. pressure / velocity levels and end up with over penetration. I know my 135 gr. SWC for my 9MM suffer over penetration to the extreme but they are special purpose rounds .
Way back before there were so many higher performance SD loads to choose from a fairly popular .38 load was a swaged hollow base wad cutter loaded reversed (cavity forward) . Being soft and not having the cavity being able to seal as designed these leaded to the extreme but they sure expanded nicely.
NRA Endowment Member
Vet . 2nd of the 47th 9th.Inf. Viet Nam Mar. 67-68
as many have posted most newer molds are no where near as good of quality as the ones form 30 years or longer ago.It's not really the quality of Lyman moulds that has deteriorated but the quality of COWWs that has deteriorated. I still have a bucket of COWWs from 25 - 30 years ago and they are much better quality than today’s COWWs. Also with the advent of the internet and the popularity increase in casting most don't read Lyman's manuals and use the common advice to just use "wheel weights". There in is the real problem.
If you go back and check almost all the complaints about Lyman moulds, and others BTW, not casting to nominal diameter or some diameter wanted above that the OPs were using WWs for the alloy. 30 years ago the quality of WWs was pretty consistent but the 10 years or so the quality isn't consistent and even varies considerably in different locals across the country. The quality depends on the original percentages of lead/antimony/tin in the COWWs and then when reprocessed (a gob of different makes with different %s) if the maker replenished or added any of the metals to bring them back to original %. Reprocessed COWWs will also have a large % of SOWWs in them the last 10+ years or so and are much softer with lower % of tin/antimony in them. So how does anyone know when smelting old COWWs that they were new ones or reprocessed ones? You don't and thus the quality of the alloy from COWWs is usually low in both antimony and tin but usually very low in tin.
What this means in a mould designed to cast a bullet with Lyman's #2 alloy or linotype is that the bullets will be undersized. It is as simple as that. So should we blame the mould maker for those undersized bullets when it is the user that uses the wrong alloy? I, personally think not which is why I have made my standing offer. I have not bought a single mould yet from that offer BTW. You can mix up the correct alloys (or simply add 2% tin to your batch of COWWs) now and be happy with the mould now as is. Or you can modify the mould or spend $s for a custom mould that casts the right diameter from COWWs now. However, in a few years when COWWs made from lead/tin/antimony are no more you will have to attempt to duplicate the poorer quality ternary alloy of today’s COWWs so that mould will not cast grossly oversized bullets with a correct alloy.
Frankly I think it's a lot easier to simply add 2% tin. Some think tin is expensive but 2% really isn't that much and it's not that expensive. After all at 2% tin to COWWs how much tin can you buy and make how much very good alloy for the price of a modified Lyman (if you have it done right or take a chance and mess it up yourself) mould or a custom mould? Just my thoughts are all.
I've several "newer" Lyman moulds in my collection and have used numerous other "newer" Lyman moulds the last few years. I've not really found any difference in Lyman's quality in the last 45 years I've used "new" Lyman moulds and even when compared to older Lyman and Ideal moulds. Actually I find newer Lyman moulds to be more consistent in quality and in the diameter of bullets cast than older Lyman's and Ideals.
I put my money where my mouth is as my offer on Lyman moulds still stands.
Larry Gibson
Last edited by Larry Gibson; Yesterday at 08:11 AM.
Everyone loves nice round full sized boolits that drop from their molds but as many have posted most newer molds are no where near as good of quality as the ones form 30 years or longer ago.I disagree completely. We are currently in the golden age of cast boolits, never have bullet casters had such an incredible variety and QUALITY of molds/bullets to choose from and it seems to just be getting better all the time.Rick
"The people never give up their freedom . . . Except under some delusion." Edmund Burke"Let us remember that if we suffer tamely a lawless attack on our liberty, we encourage it." Samuel Adams
One side is for Liberty and the Constitution and they are called domestic terrorist, anti-American, nazi's and mobsters. Just what is the side using these terms for?
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CRPA Life Member
Not trying to be argumentative but how can excess antimony make the whole boolit cast small yet still give complete fillout on the bands and bases?FWIW, I had the RS tested through the recent offer a member here was running. Being a little bit sneaky I sent two of the samples out of the same pot of RS, casting them only seconds apart. The results are:
sb 1.51, mo .58, bi 3.11, pb 91.99, zn .21, cu .33, fe .72
sb 1.66, sn .33, bi 2.23, pb 92.80, cu .31, fe .88
Those numbers don't make me feel all that warm and fuzzy about the accuracy of the test results.
Anyhow, I poured that pot of metal out (the one from yesterday) and brewed a fresh pot of RS + 2% Sn. Casting at around 700? (I have to say around because that's the average of about 60? swings with the thermostat in my RCBS pot) I got boolits that are now mic'ing .4295-.430". I haven't inspected them closely yet but they appear to be fairly blemish free.
As has been commented on there is not much accuracy needed for defensive use and who cares if they lead. No question about that part of it but I would rather not have to scrub the bore every time it gets shot with these loads either. No way of knowing how many practice rounds will be fired before my daughter reaches any level of proficiency nor how many she will fire in maintaining that level.
I'm off to inspect and size this latest effort, hopefully the problem is gone and once again I am coming away smarter.
I disagree completely. We are currently in the golden age of cast boolits, never have bullet casters had such an incredible variety and QUALITY of molds/bullets to choose from and it seems to just be getting better all the time.Rick
Rick I do not doubt that one can pay over $100 for a custom mole and have a very high quality one however molds which I purchased 30 to 40 years ago were works of art even the really idexpensive 6 cav. Lee ones..Lucky for me I purchased and hung onto mine and honestly my opinion on the new ones are based on what I read here and perhaps all the issues posted about are the operators and or the alloys they are trying to use.
I do have a new Lee 6cav. ordered that should be here tomorrow and will thus be able to see if present quality sucks or not.
I started my trade as a Tool & Die Maker at age 18('63) and had many summers working in the shop prior to this. I averaged working over 60 hours per week on the job for over 40 years and many years had a sideline shop. I spent close to 10 years designing / redesigning commerical printing equipment for two of the largest bank associated printing companies back in the days of Linotype,Monotype and other hot type equipment and presses.
I even made a few molds myself and that was long before CNC equipment came to be. I fully realize that everyone wants precession and bargin prices but it rarely ever happens. Lucky for me I know how and have the ability to tweak a less than perfect mold to atleast make it work as it should have when placed in inventory.
NRA Endowment Member
Vet . 2nd of the 47th 9th.Inf. Viet Nam Mar. 67-68
I've spent part of the afternoon playing with an old Lyman 429348, 2 cav. mold.I keep hearing guys say that their new Lyman molds drop small. It isn't just the new ones! This one is dropping .4275-.4282" boolits.
Anyhow, I poured that pot of metal out (the one from yesterday) and brewed a fresh pot of RS + 2% Sn. Casting at around 700? (I have to say around because that's the average of about 60? swings with the thermostat in my RCBS pot) I got boolits that are now mic'ing .4295-.430".And you thought we were steering you wrong?
They shouldn't lead at all IF they fit the firearm correctly. What are the throat diameters? What is the groove diameter, this is what will tell you if it will lead. If need be lube them with a die that will not size but lube only.
Rick
"The people never give up their freedom . . . Except under some delusion." Edmund Burke"Let us remember that if we suffer tamely a lawless attack on our liberty, we encourage it." Samuel Adams
One side is for Liberty and the Constitution and they are called domestic terrorist, anti-American, nazi's and mobsters. Just what is the side using these terms for?
NRA Benefactor Life Member
CRPA Life Member
brewed a fresh pot of RS + 2% Sn. Casting at around 700? (I have to say around because that's the average of about 60? swings with the thermostat in my RCBS pot) I got boolits that are now mic'ing .4295-.430". I haven't inspected them closely yet but they appear to be fairly blemish free.You may not post new threadsYou may not post repliesYou may not post attachmentsYou may not edit your postsForum RulesAmazing how something that simple works. Obviously I'm not buying that 429348 mould.............
Larry Gibson
Abbreviations used in Reloading
Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt"
