45-70 all over the paper...

Boolit Mold Join DateApr 2011Posts8

I've been having some difficulty with my rifle (1885 High-Wall by C-Sharps) grouping 18-20" at 100 yards. I've established that it's not me as other shooters can't get it to group any better.

I'm using my reloads using hardcast 405gr lead @ .458 and between 30 & 38 grains of 4198. I don't have a chronograph so I don't have any info on velocities.

My current thoughts are the .458 lead is undersized; I can take a fired case and (after removing any leftover crimp) a bullet will slide right in without any force. Obviously I need to do a chamber cast or slug the bore...

Can a bullet that's undersized like this really result in groups of these sizes? I'm pretty worried as I've never encountered an issue like this.

I posted this over on AR15 and they directed me here... The consensus is I need to slug my bore and see what I'm working with for bore size.

My question now is I've got 400 or so bullets left that are sized at .458; I bought these before I really had a clue what I needed. Can these bullets with the lube grooves be paperpatched or otherwise bumped up in size to work with a larger bore?

Boolit Master Join DateDec 2009LocationMountain area of Northern CA.Posts243

I'll try to answer part of your questions. Offhand I would say there is a very good chance your bullets are undersize for your barrel. The majority of 45/70s I have used like a bullets of around .460 in dia. for best accuracy. Yes you should slug your bore and determine groove dia. and size your bullets 1-2 thousand over that barrel groove dia.

On my current 45/70 I size my cast bullets to .460 and use 43 gr. of IMR-4198 with a Ranchdog 350 gr. GC bullet for about 1800fps and 3 shot groups at 100 yards that measure 1 inch. With my rifle, those groups will open up at .459 and to my surprise, will also open up if I size to .461.

slugg your barrel and find a cast bullet maker that will sell you cast bullets sized to fit your bore if you do not cast yourself.

Boolit Master Join DateNov 2006Posts912

If your bullets are indeed "undersized" then the hard cast will make it even worst, as they won't swage up to fit the barrel either.

If it was easy, anybody could do it.

Yep, slug the bore. Try a bullet (cast) a thou or two over that size and see where you're at...have you shot any factory jacketed stuff for a comparison?? I would also start a little closer, say 50yds, for group. Your load of 4198 is quite a bit less than what I load with the same bullet (Lee 405gr...412 actual). and a bullet SHOULD slip easily into a fired case (before the case is resized), that's why we resize them..

Get back to us on the bore size, and the results from some factory jacketed rounds. There's an answer for the issues you're having, just need to take it one step at a time..

Boolit Mold Join DateApr 2011Posts8

I'm going to slug the bore this evening when I get home.

IF I am undersized with the .458, what can I do with the bullets I already have?

I'm going to slug the bore this evening when I get home.

IF I am undersized with the .458, what can I do with the bullets I already have?

I had that problem years ago and I ended up melted and casting with a different mold. Gives whole new meaning to the phrase "Bite the bullet". I also stopped using the mold that habitually threw undersized boolits.

?Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you?, Joseph Heller, Catch-22

it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

the more i find out about shootin boolits, the more it contradicts everything i ever learned about shooting jaxketed.

Here are some egg shaped sinker sizes that will work for different calibers. In the case for a 45-70 use the #8 and flatten it out in a vise to make it bigger than the barrel. Start from the muzzle and drive it through the barrel to the breach using a wooden dowel or brass rod with a heavy hammer. Also be sure the sinkers are lead and not an alloy and lube them before doing it with some kind of grease or oil.

Lead sinker sizes for checking gun bores

Size 10
For use in .270, 7mm, and .30 Calibers

Size 9
For use in .338, .348, 38/.357, and 35 Calibers

Size 8
For use in .41, .44, .45, and .475 Calibers

The corresponding weights:
Size 10 - 1/8oz
Size 9 - 1/4oz
Size 8 - 3/8oz

Boolit Mold Join DateDec 2010LocationCarrboro, NCPosts17

I agree bigger sounds better. I shoot a 458 win mag and use a 459 over a 457 or 458. Works better.

You can bump up soft boolits a thousandth or two, provided you have a lubrisizer that can stand the strain. (Lyman 45 need not apply.) Simply install a sizer of the size you need, and adjust the depth setting on the internal ram so that your down ward stroke squashes the boolit enough to swell out.

TWO Things.
This is hard on the Press, don't make a habit of it.
Don't try it with commercially-cast, water-quenched or heat-treated boolits. They require more force than your press can stand.

_________________________________________________It's not that I can't spell: it is that I can't type.

#1 slug the bore.
#2 boolet needs to be 1-2 thou. over bore.
#3 If you don't have any boolets that size,
ask on here and someone will send you afew.

Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy!
Ben Franklin

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Abbreviations used in Reloading
Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt"

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