Seating 40 S & W cast bullets - issue

Boolit Bub Join DateMar 2013LocationBear, DelawarePosts28

I am trying to seat some 40 S & W cast bullets. I am having an issue when I do though. Some of the lead is shaving off the bullets and clinging around the cast mouth. Do I need to adjust my sizing die to bell the cast mouth more?
Thanks!

Flare the case mouth just enough to prevent lead shaving; taper crimp in a separate operation just enough to close the flaring.

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.", old Chinese proverb.

Boolit Buddy Join DateJun 2010LocationHouston, TXPosts68

In a word, yes. It seems most reloading dies are set to open the case mouth for a J-word bullet. Those are normally sized at .400 while our cast boolets are sized to .401 or larger, so it would follow that you need more case mouth expansion. In addition, depending on your barrel the throat may not want to accpt the cast, in which case I find I have to seat the boolet a slight bit deeper. You may want to make up some dummy rounds to do a "plunk" test to get the seating right. Good luck.

Boolit Bub Join DateMay 2012Posts32

Mookiie, you didn't mention the brand of dies you are using but there should be an expander die you can adjust to expand or bell the case a little more to help stop the lead shaving. You don't want to use the sizing die as an expander.

Landers

Boolit Bub Join DateMar 2013LocationBear, DelawarePosts28 Boolit Bub Join DateMar 2013LocationBear, DelawarePosts28

Landers - thanks - the expander die was still hooked to my powder measure and so i completely forgot it existed and since I am mocking up rounds with no powder to check function it never occurred to me. Thanks!

If you try seating any caliber lead bullet w/o a good case mouth flare, shaving will occur. The bullet should easily sit atop the flared case mouth, the flare is quite visible.

EVERY GOOD SHOOTER NEEDS TO BE A HANDLOADER.
NRA Cert. Inst. Met. Reloading & Basic Pistol

.40 Cal pix Here:

http://reloadingtips.com/pages/loading-40-sw.htm

Be sure to click on the images to expand them.

First reload: .22 Hornet. 1956.

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Seating and Crimping on microband

Boolit Mold Join DateMar 2013Posts4

I spent some time casting boolits for my .38 special this weekend and tried to reload some of them last night. While reloading, I ran into a question about crimping. The Lee Precision specifications that come with the reloading dies provides a minimum OAL for this round. When I seated the boolit to the minimum OAL, the last microband sits above the case mouth and a crimp is made on the shoulder of the microband. My question is would it be ok to seat and crimp the boolit such that one or more or the microbands sits above the case mouth and is it ok to crimp the case on the shoulder of the microband instead of the grove??

You failed to mention the specific boolit, but if it has a crimping groove, use it. It it doesn't, you can crimp it at one of the tumble lube grooves if that's what you have. A heavy crimp on a 38 Special is not needed and in fact on some of my loads I crimp very little and sometimes don't crimp at all.

Cartridge OALs are just guides. As long as your cartridge chambers and the cylinder spins free you should be fine. It's best to avoid very deeply seated boolits.

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.", old Chinese proverb.

Boolit Master Join DateOct 2010LocationVT, that Green Mountain StatePosts596

I assume you're working with the TL 158 grain SWC or RN. Not that important where you crimp with these bullets, as long as they chamber and shoot well. I always crimp on the top band of the TL 158 SWC, with all the microgrooves hidden.

Boolit Mold Join DateMar 2013Posts4

You failed to mention the specific boolit, but if it has a crimping groove, use it.Sorry, I posted my question while running off to work and didn't have time to look up the specific boolit. It is Lee Precision's TL358-158-SWC. I don't think it has a crimping grove per se, just microbands for tumble lubing.

http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/hand-gun-bullet-molds/bullet-mold-double-cavity/

Boolit Mold Join DateMar 2013Posts4

I assume you're working with the TL 158 grain SWC or RN. Not that important where you crimp with these bullets, as long as they chamber and shoot well. I always crimp on the top band of the TL 158 SWC, with all the microgrooves hidden.That's the one. If I use the top band, the OAL will be less than the specified minimum by Lee Precision. My concern is that if the OAL is less than what is specified, I may be creating a dangerous situation with internal pressure.

If you are shooting them in a revolver, about the only OAL restriction on the .38 is to make sure they are less than the length of the cylinder (so that the cylinder can rotate). Remember, wadcutters are seated flush with the case mouth, so nudging the bullet a bit to hit a groove is not a problem. If you are using a lever action rifle, you might have some feeding problems with different OALs, but I would still think that if it is a minor adjustment to OAL to hit a groove, it still will probably not be a problem. My concern is that if the OAL is less than what is specified, I may be creating a dangerous situation with internal pressure.Always work up the loads with whatever OAL you are using, but a minor adjustment should not produce any problems. Even with a major change in length, you can still be safe by backing off your load 10% or so and building back up looking for pressure signs along the way.

Boolit Master Join DateOct 2010LocationVT, that Green Mountain StatePosts596

As has been shared, those OAL restrictions are really just a guideline. Your care is well-founded, but in this situation I would worry more about a double charge than a few thousandths of OAL.

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Problem with bullet seating using once-fired rifle brass

Hi folks,

I'm just getting started with reloading and have encountered a problem. I have a bunch of once-fired .243 Win brass that I've saved up. I was intending to neck size only. However, the neck opening on these cases is too narrow - bullets don't fit. I'd expect that, having been fired, the bullet should be loose in the neck until it's resized. But it doesn't fit at all. I suspect it may be due to an overly aggressive factory crimp. It's visible as a very slight inward curvature at the opening of the neck.

I suppose I could just seat the bullets without any resizing, but I'm not sure how wise that would be. Otherwise, is there some sort of flaring die I can get to open up the necks and then re-size?

Thanks in advance.

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Primer seating depth

Up until now, I have used my Lee Challenger press for all my primer seating and it is very consistent as far as seating depth goes. All the primers end up just below flush and look very much like factory originals.

Last night, I decided to use the Lee Auto-Prime and I noticed that while being a little quicker, the results were much less consistent. About half of the primers ended up considerably deeper...enough so that it is easily spotted with the naked eye---no close up examination necessary.

My fear is that this could lead to inconsistent performance, light strikes, FTFs, etc. so I am wondering if any others using the Auto-Prime have experienced this and what steps were taken to remedy the situation.

Or, could it be the brass has inconsistently sized primer pockets? It is nickel plated Federal .357 magnum and this is the second time I have loaded it.

As always, any input will be greatly appreciated.

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Seating Depth issues

Was setting up the press for a different 9mm boolit tonight, and made 6 dummy rounds to check for chambering in my pistol. When I measured the OAL, I got quite a spread: 1.078, 1.079, 1.1.083, 1.084, 1.088, 1.088.

These aren't difference immediately obvious to the naked eye, but I've noticed this before when I've taken the time to check O
AL. Is this spread normal? Is it a problem?

Pat

You might want to check your seating plug for boolit loob. A buildup will cause that kind of variation. Also, make sure your seating stem is secure.

CPL Lou

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Sizing cases and Properly seating over sized Boolits

I have been reloading for a long time but this is my first real serious adventure into cast boolit reloading. I have loaded some 8mm Mauser boolits that I bought and used a 8mm expanding die to open up the case mouths after standard case sizing. Reading here I see that method basically causes the back of the boolit to be sized down by the brass that is sized to small. If not, then the standard seating die would achieve the same undesirable results of reducing the boolit driving bands size. So I have a few questions.....

What methods/tools do you use to properly size your case necks for the over sized cast boolits? Do you buy a custom (larger than standard) Lee collet die so the brass does not get over worked?

Last edited by Smokepole50; Yesterday at 02:38 PM.

45 AUTO! Because having to shoot someone twice is just silly!

You can adjust the lee collet die to size just enough to hold a boolit. The collet won't be forcing the brass onto the mandrill at that point. It takes some tinkering but you can get the case neck to grip any boolit that fits into the unsized neck. Be careful if the size is too close to the ID of the chamber's neck the brass will not have enough room to release the boolit. I'm trying this with my Ruger 7722 Hornet. As cast 225462 from my mold just fits into the unsized necks. A dummy fits the chamber a bit tight so I need to size the boolits, I'm guessing, .001 and then size necks to grip the boolit. A set of pin gages would help to keep things consistant in sizing the cases and so would an impact slug of the chamber. If you don't have the gages and haven't slugged your chamber go by feel.

Last edited by robroy; Yesterday at 03:10 PM. Reason: Can't spell or punctuate till at least the third draft

As mentioned, if you ignore the directions that come with Lee's collet neck sizing die, you can size the case to create your desired neck tension.

Then, a Lyman M-die can be use to open the mouth just enough to squarely hold the boolit.

Depending upon how fat your boolits are, you may need a custom M-die expander plug.

Using the Lee collet die will require you to sort cases by at least headstamp when using the above method due to varying thickness of brass.

If need be I guess I could always turn the case necks down a bit if I run into a chamber that is a little tight for the boolit I need to use. I think I have a 7mm mandrel.

After a long phone conversation with a fellow forum member here in VA, I believe I am relieved of my concerns about the ID of the case neck being to small after sizing with a standard 7mm neck die. His explanation was, that after the case mouth was belled out large enough with a M die for the CG to fit inside the mouth of the case, that the GC hardness would prevent the base of the boolit from being resized down below the desired dia. by excessive neck tension caused by a standard neck sizing die. I guess a 16-18 BHN lead alloy boolit with a copper GC properly applied would present enough strength to swell the remainder of the case neck below the M die bell and not sucum to any swaging during the seating process. I know this is probably splitting frog hairs here but I want to do things right the first time and know that my reloading process is not faulty if my groups are not as tight as I like. This 1912 Chilean Mauser is in NRA fine condition and should shoot very well if I do my part in the loading process.

I use a VLD case mouth tool to chamfer the mouth almost to the outside of the mouth making sure to leave a rim of square on the edge. I have my dies stoned so they do not over size the neck down and then the expander mandrel of my neck trunong set is enough to allow the GC entry without the risk of sizing or shaving lead from the drive bands.

A 7x57 and a 404, all a man needs anywhere,anytime,ever.

Lil' off subject:For pistol i use rcbs expander step dies instead of bell die's from other companies. Brass looks better at top and if ya use a boolit dropper they fall rite in. They seat and crimp better IMO. Its like a ring around the base of boolit to "set" in instead of a waller'ed out tipping bell brass top. Even if i did rifle i would do step expansions. I like lite dillon crimp dies.

workin @ Ft. bragg

Use the 31 M plug for 310-311 sized cast.

Greed is harder to fix than stupidity. You can't fix stupidity.

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Seating Gas Checks with Lee Sizer

I've seen that some don't lube the bullets before seating gas checks with the push through sizer. The directions say to lube with Alox, and then size/seat gas check.

Is one method preferable? I'd rather not lead up my sizer if I don't have to, but I can see gas checks seating better on unlubed bullets.

Boolit Buddy Join DateApr 2009LocationHouston TXPosts59

I use a little of the Imperial sizing wax before pushing thru the Lee sizer.

I use the Imperial sizing wax on plain cast bullets and powder coated bullets.

Installing the gas checks works best if the Lee sizer is inverted and a hand press is used to push the check and bullet thru the press.

The common press is the 1/2 ton press from Harbor Freight.

If you are using a flat nose design just flip the boolit over and push it through that way. If your mold is tossing them fairly well and they clip right on try dipping them in LLA and letting them dry. Then size.
A set of these makes dipping pretty easy no matter what design: http://shop.hobbylobby.com/products/stainless-steel-jewelry-tweezers-111724/

GSSF RSO
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DU

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These are the times that try men's souls.
Thomas Payne

It doesn't take much lube to go through the sizing die.
I use a rag with a little olive oil drizzled over it, pile a bunch of bullets on the rag and wrap them up and give them a bit of a rub.

I use the beer can gas checks and they don't handle the cookie cutter to well when I pan lube and the cookie cutter won't work on unsized bullits so after I drizzle and size I pan lube, then shove them back through the sizer butt first to seat the check.
Yeah, I know it's tedious, but it works.

Hard work made me what I am today,
Broken and broke
******************************
Bob

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Seating Depth ?

30-06
Is this seated deep enough
I am still .065 of the lands

Sorry, I could not read the content fromt this page.

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Seating depth with gaschecks

I posted this in the Gas Check area and absolutely no responses at all. Someone with their vast experience on this board has to have a quick answer to this issue ......I hope. Maybe I titled in wrong so hopefully someone can help me here.This gascheck stuff is all new to me although I have been rolling my own for 30+ years,

I am loading for 30 Herrett and 357 Herrett and am trying to get a cast boolit load worked up. Question is , do you have to have the boolit seating depth such that the check is kept in the neck area of the case and not below the neck hanging in the open per say. I have plenty of throat depth to almost have the boolit totally out of the case so it is no problem with keeping it out far enough but some of the lube grooves are exposed in order to keep the check in the neck and not below it. I am using the Lee 30-180-SP in the 30 and Lyman 358315 200 gr in the 357.The 357 at 1st workup seems to shoot well with no leading but the boolit is way out there to keep the check in the neck. I do have it as deep as possible trying to keep as much of the lube grooves in the case as possible. Does it hurt to have the lube grooves exposed ? It is not an issue for me as it is a single shot and not a problem to use them like that just did not know if it was a good practice or not. Not be redundant but I also need to know if I can seat a gascheck below the neck area also.

I will also be doing the 357 SIG soon and that will be the same issue I am sure.......if I decide to use Gaschecks.

Nope. I seat my bullets below the neck and the results are un-noticeable. Seat your bullet as close to the lands as possible and you might find that you're not below the neck after all.

With the TC the throat is so long I can actually have the boolit barley seated and still not touch the lands so I am trying to keep it out as far as possible for better accuracy ( I hope ) but only one of the lube grooves are in the case the others are exposed at that OAL. The short necks on the 30 Herrett , 357 Herrett and 357 SIG are where I was getting concerned if I try to seat deeper.

i had read somewhere that the checks could possible pull off when they try to enter the neck if they are seated below it. Again, heresay but thought I would ask and get some opinions. When you think about it , if that were true they would try to pull off when entering the rifling also.
It is all a learning process.....

I think this is another example of theory and reality clashing. The Swiss K-31 has a short throat and seated boolit bases extend into the case body, without any apparant accuracy issues. I have a K-31 and its cast boolit accuracy is better than that of the notoriously accurate GP-1100 jacketed ammo.

Hornady and new Lyman (made by Hornady) gas checks are crimped on, and won't come off.

While the above has been my experience, it's not impossible that others have had different experiences.

I've read both sides of this discussion and am interested in replies. Some say lead exposed in the case, below the neck is apt to melt from the gasses and lead the barrel. Some say the gascheck will/can come off and destroy accuracy. Some say there is no difference at all...

Check the dates of the information. Old Lyman gas checks that did not crimp on, probably an issue in some cases. New Lyman and Hornaday gas checks that crimp on, I doubt any issue. I seriously doubt that the base of the boolit is exposed to the powder burn long enough to do any damage. After all, a plain base boolit is exposed to the powder burn no matter where it is seated.

Wayne the Shrink

There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

Boolit Master Join DateFeb 2011Posts418

The only ones i have had come off was when i was taking some out of cases.

On those that did not come off i went out and shot them at the ground.

Exposed lube grooves or deep seated boolits have never been a problem for me, I always seat out as far as I can and still have good support for the boolit.

Calamity Jake

NRA Life Member
SASS 15704
Shoot straight, keepem in the ten ring.

Thanks guys for the info so far. I quess I will head to the range with what I have so far and see what results I get. I started using the PB gas checks from Pat and they did great on my 9MM so my next step is I may try them on my 357 Sig. That is where I figured i would have the issue since the neck is so short on it. I am shooting cast in it now with fairly good results but figured if I get into major lead issues moving forward and go with the PB gaschecks I needed to know about the checks seating below the neck.

Issues with the 357 Herrett have not really been a problem just looks funky with the lube grooves exposed and seated out so far. Just gearing up for the 30 Herrett now. Quess I will try to seat a little deeper and see what the effects will be. No pressure signs at all yet.

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