Do cast boolits need lub grooves?

Boolit Mold Join DateSep 2010Posts7

I'm thinking of making a smooth sided mold like a paper patch mold . lubing with a tumble lub. This would be for a handgun cal.800-1400 FPS. Has anyone tried this and did it work?

The ribs on a tumble lube mold aren't there primarily to take the lube; they're to allow sizing and reduce the pressure required to engrave the rifling. Slicks, as the paper patchers call them, don't even work that well in paper patch (they don't hold the patch well enough, leading to leading at lower velocity than would be the case when things work as they should).

Many of the old Hornady swaged bullets had a cylindrical body with knurling, but those were very soft alloy (anywhere from pure lead to about like the 1.5% antimony used in current .22 LR rounds), meaning they'd engrave easily even without reliefs for metal to flow into -- and, of course, they were already accurately sized in the swaging process. If you could make your mold drop exactly at the desired size, and cast soft enough, it might work -- but it's hardly any more effort to put lube grooves in with the correct size driving bands, compared to boring an accurately sized slick mold.

Boolit Master Join DateMar 2005LocationWashington StatePosts219

I'd think an undersized smooth boolit for paper patching is a different critter from a cast boolit for shooting with lube. The LEE tumble lube boolits all have itty bitty lube grooves on them. I don't know for a fact, but displaced lead has gotta go someplace IMO. I'd think displaced lead prolly winds up in the lube grooves, but again, I don't know this to be a fact. Never retrieved a boolit to look for displaced lead. Smooth boolits sized at groove or +.001 or .002 might be interesting, but where does the displaced lead (from the lands) go?

Yes I had a smooth 148 grain 38 I shot like that. Worked just fine at 700 feet per second.

?When people have tried everything and have discovered that nothing works, they will tend to revert to what they know best?which will often be the tribe, the totem, or the taboo.?
? Christopher Hitchens

Boolit Mold Join DateSep 2010Posts7

Where does the displaced metal in a jacketed bullet go The only jacketed bullets I've seen with grooves are Barnes solid coppers

Low-velocity, low pressure loads work fine with slicks. Black powder with soft alloy and the correct amount of undersize works perfectly. Lots of ways to skin the cat. What DOESN'T work, for me and a few others who've tested it, is full-house bottlenecked rifle loads with patched slicks. For that, one needs shallow grooves and to wet-patch so the paper shrinks tightly into them and stays put under all the mighty forces in the gun until it's time to go bye-bye at the muzzle.

In a low-pressure revolver, patching slicks does work if the final patched diameter is throat size, but it's a lot of work for something easily done with traditionally lubed, grease-groove boolits or even tumble lube like liquid Alox or 45/45/10. If you have a "slick" mould that's throat sized, or have made your own push-out style with a drill bit or similar, you can roll the casting between two coarse files to knurl them and lube them with a tumble lube-type coating.

Gear

You can't fix Stupid, but you can occasionally head it off before it hurts something. --Stephen Adams

Being able to separate the wheat from the chaff has always been a valuable skill in all of life's activities. --Bwana

Boolit Master Join DateMar 2005LocationWashington StatePosts219

Can't answer your question! The grooves in the Barnes bullets were put there to reduce bullet friction that was a problem with the original Barnes monolithics. I've not seen any discussion on the subject, but pondering on it, I suspect that j***ed bullets are a bit undersize to begin with. That plus square bottom grooves gives someplace for some of the displaced metal to go. JMO

it goes to the base.
i'm working on some super mini lube groove type boolits for the 38.
I have them all shaped and made I just haven't decided on the lube just yet.
i'm debating just a wipe of lanolin and castor oil mix, or doing a full t/l type lube.
or just filling the super mini grooves with normal lube.
I have done a mini lube groove in a 44 mag, so I know small amounts of lube will work.
it's just finding out how little and how slick does it have to be to work.

it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

the more i find out about shootin boolits, the more it contradicts everything i ever learned about shooting jaxketed.

You can't fix Stupid, but you can occasionally head it off before it hurts something. --Stephen Adams

Being able to separate the wheat from the chaff has always been a valuable skill in all of life's activities. --Bwana

I have fired a few smooth sided boolits, knurled by rolling between two files then hot dipping in my own lube concoction. That's in rifles. I'm not sure about the hot dipping lube though - it doesn't have the strength to remain in place under normal handling conditions and just today I've had it fail on just one shot but that was a fairly stiff load for cast (mild for rifle). But who knows whether a lube grooved boolit might have done the same? Soon I'll switch to a carnauba based lube mix.

Regards
303Guy

?It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!? Nietzsche

Boolit Mold Join DateSep 2010Posts7

I'm just fishing for ideas . a smooth side mold is easy to make & I've read of them being used unlubed with a grease wad in rifles .I wouldn't want put a greasewad in a handgun load . thought maybe tumbling in alox or alox-jpw would work. Thanks for your input. If I try this I'll post the results

Trying to put a semi-honest business man out of the loob groove business. Disgusting.

The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!

Yeah, but you hoarded them all and now there's a shortage, and you want gouger's prices for them now! A fella's gotta invent options!

Gear

You can't fix Stupid, but you can occasionally head it off before it hurts something. --Stephen Adams

Being able to separate the wheat from the chaff has always been a valuable skill in all of life's activities. --Bwana

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Abbreviations used in Reloading
Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt"

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