My nose riders don't.

Boolit Master Join DateFeb 2008LocationChugiak Alaska on the outskirts of AnchoragePosts398

I have 3 so called nose rider 30 cal molds, 2 Lees and a Lyman. The largest nose of the three is the .312 Lee mold with a nose of .298. The other Lee and the lyman are .296 and .295. Do I have to order a custom mold to get a nose that is actually .300? Do you folks have nose rider molds that fit? I'm using COWWs, do I need to modify my mix or am I the only one that gets molds that are way undersize?

I ran a bit of a test with two of my 30 caliber moulds using 92/6/2 alloy some time back. Lyman #311291 drop-poured from my RCBS furnace into warmed blocks at 725* gave .300" x .312" results. Lee 312-185/same drill gave .3015" x .313". In both moulds when I contact-poured I picked up about .0005" in all dimensions.

Heating the alloy to 850* showed between .0005"-.0007" of SHRINKAGE/CONTRACTION from the above figures, under the same procedures. Lacking an electronic scale at the time, I didn't weight-sort any of these, but my "default" casting temp since that time with 92/6/2 has become 675*-700* with just about all moulds, regardless of block material.

There is at least as much art as there is science to this hobby craft.

History is always ambiguous, if honestly presented--Stephen E. Ambrose

Al is correct that casting too hot can cause more shrinkage as the boolit cools but I can assure you it won't be nearly .005". Going to a high Sb alloy can increase diameters but again I can assure you it won't be nearly .005".

Are you using calipers to make your measurements?

I have about 20 30 caliber molds and several of them are bore riders, none of the noses cast nearly that small. The smallest one is a SAECO that casts a .299" nose, .295"-.296" is mighty small for a 30 cal mold, something just doesn't sound right that you have 3 casting that small.

Rick

"The people never give up their freedom . . . Except under some delusion." Edmund Burke

"Let us remember that if we suffer tamely a lawless attack on our liberty, we encourage it." Samuel Adams

One side is for Liberty and the Constitution and they are called domestic terrorist, anti-American, nazi's and mobsters. Just what is the side using these terms for?

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CRPA Life Member

I paper patch and I have lapped all my "nose rider" so the nose section is the same diameter as my size to diameter.
ie. .301/.304 for my 30cals. Then I can patch full length.

45 AUTO! Because having to shoot someone twice is just silly!

I'm using COWWs, do I need to modify my mix or am I the only one that gets molds that are way undersize?

Almost all complaints of undersize bullets from moulds are from using straight COWWs. The moulds are cut to produce nominal bullet dimensions with an alloy containing more tin than COWWs has. Many batches of COWWs actually have very little tin. Add 2% tin to your COWWs, cast at 700 - 735 degrees, get the pour into the mould as quick as possible. This is especially necessary with the heavier bore riders with long noses. the alloy begins to cool and solidify as soon as it enters the mould so the alloy must remain hot enough for the alloy to continue to push it into the mould. the continual pressure from a large pouring of the sprue keeps the temp and pressure up for a complete fill. Thus be very generous with the sprue to include run off. Let your cast bullets age 7 - 10 days for final hardness and dimensions.

Larry Gibson

I agree 110% with everything Larry said but (there's always a "but" isn't there) .005" is a bunch, a whole lot, about a mile. Tin will help of course but no one will be more surprised than me if anything even close to .005" is gained. I can't help but wonder if there isn't a problem with the measuring since this is 3 molds the OP is talking about.

Rick

"The people never give up their freedom . . . Except under some delusion." Edmund Burke

"Let us remember that if we suffer tamely a lawless attack on our liberty, we encourage it." Samuel Adams

One side is for Liberty and the Constitution and they are called domestic terrorist, anti-American, nazi's and mobsters. Just what is the side using these terms for?

NRA Benefactor Life Member
CRPA Life Member

Are you measuring the dimensions with cal's or mic's?

5 thousandths just ain't doable.
maybe 1, more than likely 1/2 thou.
if I had a 298 pouring nose i'd look to lap it out or send it back with a note and a couple of boolits and discuss the issue with the mold maker.

it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

the more i find out about shootin boolits, the more it contradicts everything i ever learned about shooting jaxketed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I will be offering the GC seater plate for the lyman 45.
Also I have replacement springs for the Lyman 45 lubesizer, If your's is weak or missing, let me know

Larry is right on....add some tin !
I use old cut up pewter as my additive and diameter bumps up nicely
I doubt if you can get 0.005 increase,,,my experience has been to gain 0.002
atr

First, have you checked the calibration of whatever you are measuring with to make sure you are getting correct readings/

Second, have you inserted the nose/bore rider portion into the muzzle of your gun?

If the nose is snug fit with light to tighter fit it should be okay.

As others have said, those numbers look awfully small. Having said that, I have had Lyman moulds of recent purchase cast 0.002" undersize not 0.005" but still not acceptable.

If you are sure your numbers are right, I would send the moulds back if they cast any more than 0.0015" undersize. I can accept that alloy and temperature can affect diameter by a thou or so but beyond that it is an undersize mould.

Longbow

Boolit Master Join DateFeb 2008LocationChugiak Alaska on the outskirts of AnchoragePosts398

Ok. A little back ground. I spent about 20 years in engine rebuild shops where I rebuilt auto engines and the internal parts. I can consistantly measure to .0001 and have good mics. I also checked the noses in the 2 guns I want to use these boolits. One an H&R 30/30 is a little looser at the muzzle than the H&S Precision barreled 308Win But all boolits noses range from loose to very loose in the muzzels. Both barrels are low mileage. I just came up from the loading room where I just tried several of the suggestions. I'm using a Lee bottom pour, I added 2% tin to the cowws, dropped the temp to 700 and stuck the mold against the spout with throttle full open, dropped the mold a little and poured lead all over the top of the molds. I'm getting finning on the Lyman mold and it picked up about.0015 to about .2965. The Lee molds also picked up about the same with the Lee 312-180 hitting .300+. It is now a tight hand push in the 308 and almost tight in the 30/30 so it is usable. I am going to try lapping the nose of the 309-180 Lee to see if I can get it up to size and if that works, I'll have at the Lyman mold. The driving bands on all are big enough to size to .310 so If I can get the noses to fit I'm good to go. Thanks for the info guys.
Also does anyone have a Lyman 311466 they want to get rid of. I traded for some of those boolits and they shoot very well in my 30/30 so I would like to get that mold.
As far as going back to the mold makers, These are all molds I picked up in trade or bought years ago and just got around to taking a serious look to see if they would shoot.

Well, awright! I'm glad you got one of the tools do The Right Things. The other one pretty obviously needs a lap-out, as you say. This can be one of the "occupational hazards" of buying used moulds, or even new ones from some of the mass producers. It's a shame that so many elements of the firearms hobbies need construction completion these days.

That "finning" should not be occurring during the contact-pouring. "Whiskering" along the vent lines, OK--but finning indicates a block fit issue or warpage. Check for burrs or alignment pin anomalies that may be causing this to occur.

History is always ambiguous, if honestly presented--Stephen E. Ambrose

Ok. A little back ground. I spent about 20 years in engine rebuild shops where I rebuilt auto engines and the internal parts. I can consistantly measure to .0001 and have good mics. I also checked the noses in the 2 guns I want to use these boolits. One an H&R 30/30 is a little looser at the muzzle than the H&S Precision barreled 308Win But all boolits noses range from loose to very loose in the muzzels. Both barrels are low mileage. I just came up from the loading room where I just tried several of the suggestions. I'm using a Lee bottom pour, I added 2% tin to the cowws, dropped the temp to 700 and stuck the mold against the spout with throttle full open, dropped the mold a little and poured lead all over the top of the molds. I'm getting finning on the Lyman mold and it picked up about.0015 to about .2965. The Lee molds also picked up about the same with the Lee 312-180 hitting .300+. It is now a tight hand push in the 308 and almost tight in the 30/30 so it is usable. I am going to try lapping the nose of the 309-180 Lee to see if I can get it up to size and if that works, I'll have at the Lyman mold. The driving bands on all are big enough to size to .310 so If I can get the noses to fit I'm good to go. Thanks for the info guys.
Also does anyone have a Lyman 311466 they want to get rid of. I traded for some of those boolits and they shoot very well in my 30/30 so I would like to get that mold.
As far as going back to the mold makers, These are all molds I picked up in trade or bought years ago and just got around to taking a serious look to see if they would shoot.I have a 311446, but you would need a second morgage on your house to get it away from me. It is one of my best bullets for paper patching. Size it to .3015 in my 06 and 308, and to .304 for my SMLE.

45 AUTO! Because having to shoot someone twice is just silly!

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