Tumbling 458

Boolit Mold Join DateNov 2011Posts12

Picked up a Chas Daly Superior in 458WM a while back and having some trouble getting it to shoot worth a hoot. Rifle was supposedly NOS and I only planned on shoot cast boolits.

Started with a load of Unique and the lee 340 grain bullet lubed and sized in a .458 sizer. Ten round and none of them hit the 30"x30" target backboard at 50 yds!. The 45/70's I have all love this boolit so was really surprised by the 458's performance. Next tried the same load using Lyman 457124A boolits (what does the A stand for?) lubed and sized the same as the 340's. These all hit the backboard but were more of a pattern than a group with several key holing. I wasn't really surprised as my 45/70's don't like this boolit either.

Today I tried some Lee 405's, unsized and tumble lubed and 20 gr Trailboss. Fired ten rounds. All hit the backboard but it also was a pattern and eight tumbled, one almost tumbled and the other made a round hold.

Looking for a little direction as I have always heard the 458WM was a great shooter no matter who made it or what you fed it. Do I need to go with a larger boolit, heavier boolit, shoot it faster, or ??

Thanks for any help!

Not sure but I think you need to size them bigger like a .459 or .460.

If none of them hit the backer you have no idea if they grouped or not. Move closer until you find out where they are hitting, you may find they are shooting fine, just not to the same point of aim as the sights are sending them.

I just searched for Charles Daly Superior and most of the hits were for an O/U shotgun, is yours and O/U rifle configuration? If so you may be running afoul of barrel regulation issues, assuming O/U rifles act the same as S/S ones do. If it was regulated for .458 Win factory loads that could be the problem.

Last edited by Alan in Vermont; Today at 10:27 AM.

Boolit Mold Join DateNov 2011Posts12

I did the poor mans boresight before shooting the 340's ie sighting down the bore and aligning the scope that way. None of the 340's were to be found. The Lymans and the Lee 405's hit the backer but key holed and patterned as opposed to grouped. As noted, the 405's were unsized as dropped from the mold. Guess I'll try some of the 340's and Lyman's unsized and pan lubed to see if they will do any better.

Rifle is a Mauser type bolt action, aka Remington 798, Zastava M70 and probably a couple of others as well. Charles Daly sold these under their "Superior" name for a while.

I may try and scrounge a couple dozen jacketed bullets from friends and give them a try as well.

Have you sized the bore?
Sounds like you might not be driving them hard enough too. ??

It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed.

Theodore Roosevelt

Slug your bore, measure with a micrometer, measure your boolits, and get back to us. Until we know those facts we are all pissing in the wind!

Wayne the Shrink

There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

I'm curious about twist too. my 16" twist 45 cal BFR shoots 200 grain bullets like a shotgun, 340's tumble, and 400+ shoot straight.

If your twist is fast enough that might be playing a role, you might need to slow them down or go much heavier.

I will follow this thread. I have a few 45-70's that I like very much and have a desire to get a 458 Win Mag. I really need to get one since it would be a shame for the 50 pieces of brass and a die set to go to waste.

Yep, undersized boolit.

Rob, I still have a .458 Win Mag for sale, with dies, bullets, and more brass......

The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!

You are such a meanie Ric! I had almost forgotten that....

Boolit Master Join DateAug 2012Posts785

I'm curious about twist too. my 16" twist 45 cal BFR shoots 200 grain bullets like a shotgun, 340's tumble, and 400+ shoot straight.

If your twist is fast enough that might be playing a role, you might need to slow them down or go much heavier.

I'm with Whiterabbit on this one.

RustyReel, for sure do a few things first. Clean all the copper, fouling and lead out. Slug your bore to get groove diameter. Then, find out or measure the twist. Also, your idea of trying some Jbullets would be an excellent idea so see if the rifle will shoot at all- to eliminate some other bugger at work here.

If the groove diameter is .458 and the twist is standard 14" then--- try some 405 gas checked bullets- not too hard an alloy of BHN 12 or so sized to .458-.459 and pushed to a reasonable velocity of not more than 13-1400 fps. Then try a comparable gas checked bullet, same specs and maybe pushed even a little slower. I'd try 22 gr or so of 4759 or 5744 powder with fluff dacron filler to achieve those velocity results.

4% Neanderthal and proud of it

Was born at night, but not last night and longing for the greenwood

Boolit Mold Join DateNov 2011Posts12

Thanks for all the advise guys. I only get to the range every couple of weeks and don't always take this rifle, but I'll keep you updated on my progress. Thanks again.

I'd bet a yankee dollar your boolits are undersized for your bore, and that you'll play hobb trying to get the 340 grainer to shoot well. Take the 400 grain boolits, and Try 'em as cast, over 24 grains of 2400 with a 3/4grain dacron filler. I think you'll find that will shoot better. That Lee 340 grainer tends to cast small, at least mine does.

_________________________________________________It's not that I can't spell: it is that I can't type.

Forget your bore, fit your throat. You will most likely need .460+

The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading
Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt"

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