Reduced loads for hunting

Boolit Mold Join DateNov 2012Posts6

Has anyone hunted with reduced 30/30 loads? Say maybe a 10 grain unique load for deer? A muzzleloader does good with a round ball at about 850 or 900 fps so I don't see why 170 grain bullet at 1200 or 1300 would not do the trick. Any info would be very helpful. Thanks

IMHO, It should do fine, my 357 mag rook rifle has taken 9 deer in 6 years, I used to load a 178 gr semi-wadcutter to 1070 fps, that worked great, after I got the NOE 180 WFN it has been loaded to 1250 FPS and it flat out Kills just great longest shot has been 128 yards.

Screwbolts Lead, smelted lead from Bullet traps at Gun manufacturers, from jacketed Pistol and rifle bullets. Fluxed three times with bees wax and pine saw dust. 20 pound and 40 pound boxes.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?173-Screwbolts-Lead-Area

???O? ????
All The ?Rat Bastards? In DC Know Obama Is Not Eligible!
I'll cling to my God and my guns, and you can keep the "Change".

??? RBs out of my .45 ML run 1900+ fps and 1670 fps out of my .50 cal.........??? Never occured to me to reduce them.........

However, depending on where you hunt deer and the style of hunting a reduced load with a 170+ gr cast bullet with a large meplate should effectively take deer out to 100 yards if you put the bullet in the right place and don't quit shooting until the deer goes down or you can shoot it anymore. Be prepared to track some distance as it probably will be necessary. I prefer my "reduced" .30 cal loads to be equal to full power 30-30 loads.......including the 30-30. Starting off with minimum leaves no room to spare on the lower end.........

Larry Gibson

the 30-30 is capable of a lot more than that without even trying.
a 170 at 1800 fps is sooo easy and recoil free.
my 50 cal muzzle loader is in the 1600 fps area also with a 230 gr roundball.
i just consider it a 44 mag.

i can see where you are trying to not use gas checks and save a nickle, but any animal deserves a bit better than that.
if your shots were within 50-60 yds a soft boolit at 1300 would suffice if you were patient with your shot.
it would be similar to shooting a skinny 357

it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

the more i find out about shootin boolits, the more it contradicts everything i ever learned about shooting jaxketed.

Lamar I think you mean a 180 gr round ball for 50 cal. I've taken deer with the Lee 170 gr FP at 2K in 30/30 works fine, 1500 for the 10 gr Unique should work too.

Boolit Master Join DateMar 2012LocationArkansasPosts626

I have thought about this before also. I have a good load that runs 1250-1300 out of my 30-30 with 8 grains unique behind a 170 fn boolit.

I am a good shot with it and figured if I needed, I could take a head/neck shot easy under 100 yards. But I also have a load that pushes the same boolit to 1900 fps easy, it just uses more powder and a check. $.13 is worth knowing I have a round in my gun comparable to factory ammo.

But if I was squirrel hunting, durring rifle season for deer, and I had the light load, I would not hesitate to take a well place shot. Poachers favorite weapon is a .22lr, my light load is twice what a .22 is.

And just to clarify my .490/178 patched RB leaves the muzzle at 1600+fps from a CVA frontier carbine 24" barrel.

Boolit Master Join DateDec 2009LocationQuilcene, WashingtonPosts838

I have shot reduced loads in my Mossberg 30-30 (not that new monstrosity) with both Trail Boss and 5744 at the 1150-1250 fps and the Lee 160 gr RNGC. Shot great but opted for a "hotter" load at 1550 fps as more versatile.

Add a measly 3gr of unique to your original 10gr and you'll push the 170 out @ 1650-1700 with so little recoil you'll think it's a 243 in your hands. You'll spend more on gas just starting your truck to go hunting than what you'll spend on powder for a "reliable killer load" so why scrimp?
Use enough gun, enough powder, enough lead....then you know you'll never kick yourself in the pants for "I should've .......instead of .......". JMHO though

An old Cherokee was teaching his grandson about life. "Inside me two wolves fight," he told the boy.
"One is evil - he is anger, envy, greed, arrogance, self-pity, resentment, lies, false pride, and ego. The other is good - he is joy, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, generosity, truth and faith. The same fight is inside you - and every other person, too."
The grandson thought for a minute and asked,"Which wolf will win?"
The old Cherokee replied, "The one you feed."

yeah 180 not 230.
i was picturing a 230-rn 45 acp boolit in my head for some odd reason.
thanks, scott.

it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

the more i find out about shootin boolits, the more it contradicts everything i ever learned about shooting jaxketed.

yeah 180 not 230.
i was picturing a 230-rn 45 acp boolit in my head for some odd reason.
thanks, scott.It's called CRS, I think?

i was remembering okay, just the wrong thing...
i was gonna look at the weight on the box but i forgot where i put it, and the powder horn and my quick loaders....maybe crs did kick in.

it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

the more i find out about shootin boolits, the more it contradicts everything i ever learned about shooting jaxketed.

Has anyone hunted with reduced 30/30 loads? Say maybe a 10 grain unique load for deer? A muzzleloader does good with a round ball at about 850 or 900 fps so I don't see why 170 grain bullet at 1200 or 1300 would not do the trick. Any info would be very helpful. ThanksIf you can afford the rifle and the fixins, put enough powder of some kind behind that bullet to get 1800-2200 FPS and kill cleanly. I have killed a deer with a .30 Mauser but that is not the way to do it if there are other choices. A .45 round ball at 850 to 1000 FPS is a lot more killer that a .308 bullet at the same velocity.

150 grain cast boolit over 26 grains RL7 does not kick. Runs over 2,000 fps.
You could back that off a couple grains too.
I've shot 16.0 grains of 2400 under the same 150gr Saeco and it seamed to kick more evn though velocity is three hundred or so fps slower. Pressure was higher also. Lee makes a good 150 grain flat nose.

A 10gr Unique plinker load may be fun a plinker load but also may very well be up to the hunting task on smaller deer with the right shot placement. I'm giving it some serious thought at the moment. I don't always get the optimum shot and sometimes it's a big hog or a tough old buck that needs culling. I don't want marginal, I want decisive.
A good 170 gr boolit @ 1500 fps, well alloyed and well placed should do the job quite well. I prefer a more powerful round but if I do my part I think the Unique/Universal load is up to it.

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Boolit Master Join DateSep 2007Posts192

The topic seems to always provide for spirited debate and I doubt that is a bad thing. The discussions about what cartridge/load/fpe etc are often driven as much by emotion as fact, perhaps more. Since opinions are on the table I'll offer my own although they address the broader subject rather than just the .30-30.

1. In context of cast bullets FPE is largely irrelevant as a relative metric for lethality.
2. Placement and the bullet's terminal performance is very relevant.

Insofar as item 1 above, if one is inclined to look back in time in examination of what was accepted a century or so back, there will be a realization that with few exceptions most cartridges and muzzle loaders were velocity limited by the characteristics of black powder. To regulate power one juggled caliber more than velocity. With such arms the West was won, the States savaged each other terribly and the bison was placed on Extinction's front porch. Today we replicate such performance in many ways, though in some cases it may be a pistol which rises to the level of a .45-70 and so forth. OR, it may just be a cast bullet load from a .30-30/.25-20/.32-40. Why? Fairly simple actually. Unless paper patched or hard cast, such bullets are somewhat velocity limited. In the case of the latter, hard cast may or may not work well for target work, but its terminal performance is questionable for thoracic shot placement on large game. It is not questionable for CNS shots, but this raises the bar for bullet placement and knowledge of anatomy.

In the case of paper patch bullets, we can drive them at higher velocity and with the softer alloy achieve profound expansion despite rather anemic FPE numbers, this in comparison to current day CF rounds using cup and core bullets, splashed with favorable press etc. etc. ad nauseum. As example, 300 grains of pure lead of .422" diameter and at a nominal velocity of 1600 fps at the muzzle does not generate terribly impressive FPE numbers. I say this in context of the range wherein it strikes the target, not muzzle energy. I've yet to put powder burns on a deer's hide, though it has been close a few times. It is in the same general realm as the original .45-70 Govt BP loads with the same weight bullet. The load strikes game like Thor's Hammer. The bullet will expand to 2+ diameters, survive bone strikes and penetrate anywhere from 14-30" depending on what it hits in the way of bone or tissue density,ie lungs vs. flesh. It creates an enormous wound channel (permanent). It will make armadillos explode. Literally.

This leads to item #2. There are two ways to kill a critter. One can disrupt the CNS or cause a bleed out. That is the simple truth. Given the sedate velocity generally applied to cast or patched bullets we can ignore the always joyous discussion of hydrostatic shock (a misnomer)...praise be to Jaysus! One may or may not have the opportunity or skill to utilize a CNS shot so I'll leave that topic alone. Suffice to say if you violate the brain or spinal column it matters little what the numbers or alloy is.

So if we're trundling along at low to intermediate velocities and aiming for the boiler room, we are at the mercy of our bullet caliber, form and alloy to make a wound channel sufficient to cause rapid bleed out. We also need to have deep penetration, hopefully thru and thru on broadside shots at the likes of deer and hogs.

Penetration is a function of sectional density and momentum. Momentum = mass x velocity. Sectional density=M/7000 ? d2. The significant part of this is found in not in the sectional density of a static bullet, but rather what it retains as it transits the animal. SD for a given bullet is, in simple terms, inversely proportional to diameter^2. It is also a ratio without dimension. As a bullet expands the SD ratio decreases. With that said, this is the benchmark for successful bullet design and application for a given bullet at a given velocity on a particular game animal. This is regulated by velocity, alloy and form. Reducing velocity is in my experience a more tractable method of increasing penetration since slower soft bullets will not expand so much as compared to higher velocity loadings for a given design and alloy (read: reduced loads). There is little latitude available for significant alteration of momentum in this arena for a given caliber and bullet weight, at least in comparison to conventional cup and core loaded cartridges.

Lastly, while I recognize the vast range of opinions on this topic, including my own, I do not concern myself with what others may or may not achieve in the field. It has been my observation that committee actions and popular consensus seldom have anything to do with the reality of what is possible, or what any one individual is capable of doing. It is incumbent upon the individual to find success. I think too it is useful to explain to those who ask questions about this the very fundamental issues at play, and by that I mean the science far more than opinion. That they have the wit to ask means to me they can, with good direction, reach the conclusions necessary for success.

http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/b.../wounding.html

PS: I have very thick skin.

I have danced with the Devil. She had excellent attorneys.

More has been done with less. Not to say I would do it, but a few months ago, a member shot and killed deer with a 30-30 and 7 grains of Red Dot, if I remember correctly. Got pretty good penetration, too. I'm in the 1800 fps camp myself. If you insist on trying, keep the shots short (under 50 yards) and wait for a good shot. Plenty of folks out there shooting deer with subsonic .300 Whisper/BO loads which isn't a whole lot different than what you are suggesting. Plenty of lost deer stories with the .300s as well...

Last edited by Silvercreek Farmer; 02-25-2013 at 02:27 PM.

Not quite what the OP is asking, but a few blokes I know carry half a dozen or so downloaded cartridges for coup de grac? shots.

These are hunters/shooters/cullers who may fire into a mob of 30 or so goats for pest destrucition, so the rule is get as many as possible onto the ground as fast as possible. They then follow up to finish them off, so having low powered rounds to head shoot at close range is much safer than firing full power loads, especially on rocky ground with the increased risk of ricochet, skull/projectile fragments, etc.

If one takes to the woods with "THE BOWHUNTERS MINDSET" no (real)gun is too small if you have the skill....but at which point do you want to limit your ability/opportunity to do what you set out to do? That is a choice each one of us must juggle in our own mind as we are the only ones who truly know what we are capable of. Some people feel a 7MAG is the minimum, some say 30-06, other will throw out the 30-30....... and others hunt deer with sticks and sharp stones........in the end YOU MUST DECIDE.

Personally I have humanely killed deer with everything from sharp stones on a stick all the way up to superdooperearsplittenloudenboomers.....None of them died "any better" or "any worse" ...the limitations in range and opportunity varied immensely however. If killing deer with loads that rival the 32/20 is your bag and you have the skill and the restraint to properly administer that little pill...by all means do it. Do I want every Joe Shmoe in the workd doing it....GOD NO!, but if you HONESTLY can and you must....JUST DO IT, do a good job and never apologize for it.

[QUOTE=RoyEllis;2070840]Add a measly 3gr of unique to your original 10gr and you'll push the 170 out @ 1650-1700 with so little recoil you'll think it's a 243 in your hands. [QUOTE]

I would check your manual BEFORE trying that......... That's a little more than 2 gr. over listed maximum.

45 2.1

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