What's Ideal Hardness for deer size game?

If the velocity goal is 1800- 2000fps, is there a hardness that allows satisfactory expansion(Gas Checks used)?

More information: Bullet design (molds on order) are flat nose, Lyman 173gr and RCBS 200gr

Application: Marlin lever guns, 30-30 and .35 rem.

Alloy on hand: old clip on WW

Last edited by jsteed; Yesterday at 06:47 AM. Reason: more info

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I believe it would depend on caliber and boolit profile.

what are you working with?

Ken

Screwbolts Lead, smelted lead from Bullet traps at Gun manufacturers, from jacketed Pistol and rifle bullets. Fluxed three times with bees wax and pine saw dust. 20 pound and 40 pound boxes.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?173-Screwbolts-Lead-Area

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Boolit Master Join DateFeb 2008LocationTexasPosts554

With any decent meplat anything from 12 to 15 will give decent expansion. An older article in the Lyman cast bullet book demonstrated the effect of hardness (lyman#2) vs velocity. After about 1800 fps higher impact resulted in progressively less penetration and greater nose shedding in lieu of expansion.
I use large meplat and heat treated bullets at 22-27 bhn. I place my shots carefully and expect no expansion.

Salvaging old Marlins is not a pasttime...it's a passion

Water quenched 50/50 WW/pure (about 15 bhn) does real well at 1800 fps. Will expand nicely and penetrate a 200 pound hog stem to stern.

I came into this world kicking, screaming, and covered in someone elses blood. I plan to go out the same way.

I use a heat treated 50/50 alloy with a touch of tin in my leverguns. Limited results so far but all good! Latest success story was first CB kill with a 35 Rem, punched thru the gristle plate of a 225-250lb boar and smashed both shoulders but did not exit. Never took another step, tho. Second kill w/ that combo was a few hours later on a 70-80lb sow with an ear shot. A doe shot with a 45-70 of the same alloy didn't have an impressive wound channel or exit wound but she made it less than 50 yds after a frontal shot to the chest. Haven't recovered a boolit yet but suspect expansion is modest and a GC ensures that all the lead makes it out the muzzle.

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Boolit Bub Join DateJan 2010Posts47

Malleability, or plasticity, is NOT directly proportional to Brinell Hardness. It is, however, dependent on the crystalline structure of the alloy. Binary lead/tin alloys are very malleable as tin is very soluble in lead. It's why the blackpowder cartridge shooters love it for it's obturation in the bore at 10/1 or 20/1.

When you go to a tertiary lead/tin/antimony alloys, the proportion of tin to antimony is very important. Antimony is not very soluble in lead, and at over 2 percent the crystalline structure begins to be very brittle. Equal percentages of tin/antimony form an intermettalic compound which IS malleable.

Consider Lyman #2 alloy at 95/5/5 lead/tin/antimony versus hardball 92/2/6 lead/tin/antimony. Both have BHN of about 15. Lyman #2 is a malleable alloy that expands in rifle bullets very well depending on bullet type at appropriate cast bullet velocities. Make up a mix of 97/1.5/1.5 lead/tin/antimony with a BHN of about 9 and you have an alloy that expands at 900 to 1200 fps handgun velocities and is great for hollowpoints in handguns.

Try the hardball alloy in rifle bullets or cut it with lead for handguns and you will find that it fractures.

A very good explanation is provided by "From Ingot to Target:A Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunners" available on the LASC website. Read the hoolwpoint bullet section.

The old Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook has similar information.

Paborn

that's all good information.
i too rely on ww's and soft lead.
a flat nose.
and velocity.
the last two are where i try to really balance things.
the flatter then nose the less velocity needed/used.

you have to balance the alloy out for mold fill and fit to your rifle.
the best alloy in the world don't do you much good if everything is crooked/sloppy in the barell.
you can modify the mold to work with you also.
once you have your fit try reducing the alloy with soft lead a little at a time and see how it does for you.

it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

the more i find out about shootin boolits, the more it contradicts everything i ever learned about shooting jaxketed.

Thanks to all for the feedback. To be honest, I'm reading information that I don't understand yet, but I'll get there.

The problem we have in our country today is there are more who vote for a living than work for a living !

Keep reading and you'll do fine. The correct lube will help alot too. With air cooled clip on wheel weight and LBT Blue Soft I was going past 2000 FPS in a .32 Win. Special.

Now that I think about it, everything in signature is with air cooled COWW. From 850 FPS to 2300 FPS.

Recent cast boolit hunts:
Doe, 452424 in a 45 Colt revolver.
11 pointer, Ac Mold 45-300G in a 45 Colt lever action. "The wonder shot"
Doe, H&G 503 clone in a 44 revolver.
3 pointer Ac Mold 32-170A in a model 94
Doe with a Ac molds 45-300G smokeless inline muzzleloader pushing hard with AA5744.

I have been wondering the same thing concerning deer hunting (100-125 lb deer). What mixture of coww and pure lead for a 120g rn 30 cal bullet going about 1500fps? And should it be water cooled or air cooled? Should a bullet like that be hollow-pointed, or no need?

Thanks!
Glenn

Boolit Man Join DateApr 2010LocationSE IowaPosts85

I have shot a bunch of deer over the past and my best advice is to use an alloy that shoots well in your rifle, with a flat nose preferably, shoot them behind the shoulder thru the lungs. Then wait for the life to come out before you follow the blood trail. More than likely they will not go far. Bang flops do not always happen and dead is dead. Shooting cast is more like a bow hunter than a 7mm wizz bang and the bigger the bore the faster you let the air out Russ

Boolit Master Join DateJan 2010Posts404

I also go as soft as I can get away with and as flat-nosed as I can. It's a winning combination, but unfortunately varies from gun to gun so you will have to play with yours and find out where exactly that perfect point is.

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I can tell you this. I shoot an RCBS 35-200-FN in my 358 Winchester at 35 rem velocities. If you make your boolits out of 50/50 and air cool them, it will make hamburger out of a deer. Way too soft. I started a thread here in hunting about "the cast lead boolit is the most effective projectile in the world" I show graphic pictures of what happens when you hit Bambi with a soft, 2000+ fps boolit. It ain't pretty.

Cast your boolits out of 50/50.
Water quench them (ie. drop them from the mold into cold water)
Lube with FWFL.
Keep your speed under 2000fps
Enjoy clean kills.

Tim Malcolm

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Abbreviations used in Reloading
Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt"

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